Rick (00:04): It takes a bit of a blend of art and science to get baking just right, and having extra eyes, ears, and hands can make a big difference along the way. That's where A. B. Maury North America comes into play. We are the team behind industrial and artists and bakers that help optimize success. We'll discuss more on this episode of The Oven Light. So let's get going. Flip the switch. Welcome back to The Oven Light. Boy, we've got a great show for you today. Let me tell you about our guest, and this is off the cuff here. She is a runner, a mom, a wife, an incredible baker, an R&D expert. And now just kind of a purveyor of unbelievably good donuts. And I can tell you because I've actually been at her place, this is the owner of Rebel Rise Donuts. Rachel Wyman, welcome to the show. Rachel (01:01): Thanks for having me. Rick (01:03): And one thing I didn't talk about there was that you're also a University of Florida Gator. Near and dear to my heart. I've got it on my phone here, but- Rachel (01:12): Because you were in the bakery, you came to visit and went to take a photo of all of us together and you have a phone case with Gators on it. Rick (01:21): Is that crazy? Gator Nation is strong. It is really strong. So let's jump into a couple of those things because we're going to talk about your business, your personal life's incredible, your running mission. I mean, you're giving away donuts for 5Ks and half marathons. Boy, that isn't incentive enough. But let's go back a little bit. We talked to University of Florida. How did you get in this kind of food world anyways? Was some of that embedded back to your growing up days in Maryland or to the University of Florida or where? Rachel (01:49): Yeah, my grandmother made wedding cakes for a living or special occasion cakes. And I had a single mom and I spent all my time at my grandmother's instead of having a sitter. And she would give me a paper plate to decorate with buttercream and a pastry bag while she was working on cakes. And so I learned how to write my name with buttercream before I could hold a pencil. And it all got licked off the plate and there's the sugar high then food. So that's what kept me busy for most of my childhood. And then I never really thought about it being a career choice because it was just something I was always around, but I always worked in food. From the time I was 12, I was working in restaurants. And I went to the University of Florida and I was working in restaurants there. Rachel (02:39): And I was also peddling cookies and brownies on the side to coffee shops in Gainesville. I'm trying to think. I bet there's ... Do you remember steamers? Rick (02:47): Yes. Rachel (02:48): With the loose meat sandwiches? Rick (02:50): Yep. Rachel (02:50): That was my first account. I made cowboy cookies for steamers and I would deliver them every Wednesday and there would be people waiting for me to deliver the cookies. Rick (03:01): Boy, hot times have not changed. We saw ... Okay, and if you're not familiar with Rachel, she's got this incredible shop up in Montclair, New Jersey, and also a second location we'll talk about. But she makes these incredible donuts at Rabble Rise, everything from carrot cake to your hardcore Boston cream to anything in between. And people are just waiting and just lathering up at the mouth so they have a chance to grab a cup of coffee and some great donuts. They're Rachel (03:28): Not rabid. They're just hungry. Rick (03:30): Okay. That's true. Good point. Good point. So tell us about rabble rice because if some people are familiar with your story, they're like, okay, she had this incredible bread company called Montclair Bread. She pivoted during COVID like a lot of people, but you also got a lot of attention and publicity for some advocacy during COVID to help small businesses and not just bakers, right? Rachel (03:56): Right, right. Definitely. And I wasn't quiet if that's what the expectation is. So one thing that I feel morally obligated to do is use my voice in the best way that I can to speak out to others whose voice might not carry as much strength. I have, after 11 years of having a community bakery, I've managed to build quite a mailing list and quite a following on social media. So I knew that I wasn't alone and feeling a lot of the pressures and the constraints and just the issues that were happening because of COVID or just because of the state of the economy right now. And I knew that if I spoke out about it, that it might reach somebody- Rick (04:48): Well, we appreciate that. I know the first time we met was in Chicago, I believe, or at least I listened in on a seminar. Rachel (04:55): Yeah. We met three days before the world shut down, Rick. I was supposed to be speaking at six different events throughout the next couple months, and I was giving the same presentation at all of these national events. In Chicago, there was a couple people with masks in the airport. And I got off the plane in Newark, New Jersey coming back home and immediately got an email that the schools were closing just for a day while they figured everything Rick (05:20): Out. Oh yeah. We'll be through this in a couple of weeks. I mean, we had no idea how- No idea. The rug would be part- I Rachel (05:28): Think back to that conference so often we had no idea what was coming. Rick (05:33): No, there was inklings. And I remember walking through Tricia, who's on our team. We're walking through the show and the airport and like, "But this is just odd." There's something going on. It's like, oh, you look at people and you're like, "Boy, they have it? I don't know. What is it? What do they have? Do they have it? " But I'm glad we've come through and now it's in the rear view mirror, but I think we've all been affected in a different way forever. Rachel (05:57): Yeah. Yeah. And so what happened was kind of what happened with a lot of places across the country. I listened to what my community needed. I was raising three kids in the public schools that were shut down at the same time, and I needed the same things. I had access through large vendors. There was a supply chain issue, so I took what I had access to and opened it up to the general public, things that wouldn't have normally been available at my bakery, like frozen raw meat and eggs and bags of flour. Rick (06:32): You became a little bit of a general store. It was a throwback, wasn't it? Rachel (06:35): Yeah. It was an artisan bodega. Rick (06:38): I'm sorry, an artisan bodega, sorry. But hey, back to the Little House on the Prairie or whatever, whether you call it a bodega or a store, it was really important for people to get these things during a weird time. Rachel (06:50): Oh yeah. We were sold out a week ahead. Every single day, every single thing that I made already had a destination a week ago. Rick (06:59): That's incredible. Do you think, knock on wood, will we ever see that again? Hopefully we don't have the same kind of pandemic situation, but wow. Rachel (07:06): There are things that I really appreciated about that time, the sales that I could count on. I've never worked so hard in my life ever. It doesn't compare to anything I've ever experienced. And I've opened businesses and new locations and everything. And I mean, it was 18 hours straight of baking. The oven was full 100% of the time. There was never a point that the oven was empty. And the amount of boxes I lifted up and put down, we were unstacking four pallets of vegetables a day, and that was the maximum that we could get in this space. And that was why there were limits. And there were only 10 of us working and packing all of these orders. And I would go home in the clothes that I baked in, lay down, close my eyes, open my eyes and do it all again four hours later. Rachel (08:00): I mean, we were reading all these stories about families who don't allow mom or dad who works in the grocery store inside the house with their clothes on that have been in contact with other general public. And I'm like, "I don't think I've changed my clothes." Rick (08:17): It Rachel (08:17): Wasn't Rick (08:17): Like a hospital. We all got Rachel (08:20): It. Rick (08:21): Yeah. Oh, man. Well, let me say this. AB Mary, we've got a tagline that we'd like to use. We're passionate about baking. It's very much, it's in our DNA. But I tell you what, you have that same drive. And even if you were a hot rod car engine, you'd be a Hemi because you're just like always go, go, go. You're passionate about everything that you do, whether it's running or business. Where do you get that drive from? Where did that come from? Rachel (08:44): I guess I don't know what the alternative is. Somebody needs to pay the rent and somebody needs to feed the kids and there's really no other option. So it's either we do this thing and succeed and get to do it again tomorrow, but I don't know what else I would do. Rick (09:05): Yeah. Well, let me ask you this. So you've got roots in Maryland. We talked a little bit about your grandmother. You go down to Florida, you make your way back up to New Jersey. You like the East Coast, don't you? Rachel (09:16): I went down to Florida and then I went back to Maryland after I graduated. I really, really wanted to stay in Gainesville, but yeah, I think I would be dead if I did that. Rick (09:27): Good track and field program, right? I mean, you remember those Rachel (09:30): Days? No, no, no, no. Rick (09:31): Okay. Rachel (09:32): So college was like all cigarettes and Miller High Life. And what was it? Those- Rick (09:37): Purple Porpoise? Was that still around? Rachel (09:39): The Tall Boys, the old Milwaukee Tallboys that they used to sell for like a dollar. No, no. Rick (09:45): Sound like a college kid. Rachel (09:45): The Purple Porpoise was a little too fancy for me and my friends. We were at the house parties and watching punk rock bands play. Yeah, I was not athletic at all. I was the opposite of that. It wasn't until after I had kids that I had a reason to run away from home that I started running. So I went back to Maryland and my goal was to be a high school teacher, a high school French teacher. That's what I went to college for. I was still working in restaurants and I was substitute teaching at the high school where I graduated from. I was working in a bar at night on the hot food line. It was like a gastro pub before those existed. And then I was helping my friend who had a catering business do all of the baking for her catering stuff in the morning before school. Rachel (10:34): So I really wasn't sleeping at all. It was like 3:00 AM to midnight and do it all over again. So I decided that I either needed to go back and get my master's so I could continue teaching or maybe it was time to go to culinary school and really explore this baking and pastry thing and learn how to make the fancy cakes like my grandmother did on a professional level. Not that she wasn't professional, but it was like cottage bakery before those existed. So I don't think anything she ever did was legal, but ... Rachel (11:04): Yeah, Rick (11:05): There were different times, different Rachel (11:07): Times. Yeah, yeah, totally. So I made my way up to Hyde Park, New York, to the Culinary Institute of America. And the first class that I took was a bread baking class and I fell in love with it. And after that, I knew there was nothing else I wanted to do in life. So that was the baking and the East Coast. So that's also when I fell in love with the Hudson Valley. And I've been trying to get back here for 25 years and finally made my way back during COVID. Rick (11:38): Congrats. All right. We're going to pause real quick and we're going to come back and we're going to talk donuts here in a second, but we're going to throw a couple hot plate and hot pan questions to you right now. So first one, doesn't matter who did it, where it happened, what is your favorite baked good of all time? There had to be something, that moment where you're like, "Man, this is the best thing I've ever had." Yeah. Rachel (11:59): So I don't even know what this is called to this day, but it was when I was living in France, I spent my senior year of high school in France. Now you're just bragging, Rick (12:08): By the way. Okay, but keep going. No, Rachel (12:10): No. So I wasn't like ... I just wanted to get out of my small town in any way that I possibly could. So I worked in restaurants for three years and that financed my way. I saved all my money and paid my way to go to school in France. I graduated from American High School a year early. I doubled up on credits all my sophomore and junior year so I could do that. Then I spent my senior year of high school in France. Now I know it was fried brioche that had been dredged in sugar when it was hot out of the fryer and filled with a shaboost Rick (12:45): Train. Rachel (12:46): And I asked my host family to please take me back to that bakery that had the sweet hamburgers because it looked like a hamburger bun, but it was like filled with custard. And I still don't know what they called them because it was ... I later found out it's a regional specialty for just this little town in Brittany where I live and it's not something that they do all over. They do different kinds of things. Rick (13:13): Sure. So Rachel (13:14): When I started making donuts, that was what I have been chasing for the last 11 years, that Rick (13:20): Pastry. Well, before I ask you question too, I at least have to jump in and say, couple weeks ago, I'm over there with Ron Tremaine, who's our senior VP of sales and we're visiting and we sample some different donuts, including Boston cream, which I think it's a wonderful donut. But your bavarian cream, your take on that cream is just unbelievably good. It's not like the ... I'm not going to mention anybody, but- Rachel (13:44): It didn't come out of a bucket. Rick (13:46): It did not come out of a bucket and it was just delightfully wonderful. And with a latte in your hand and that, it just was like, it was primo. All right. So talking about all the donuts and all the offers that you do, and you do special kind of ins and outs, what's your favorite rabble rice donut that you have on your menu or even on your short-term menu? Rachel (14:07): My favorite daily donut is the apple cider. It's a yeasted apple cider. So it's made with cider instead of milk or water in the dough. And then it bulk ferments overnight and then it gets a layer of cinnamon laminated through it. So it has a cinnamon swirl and then when it's hot, it's like tossed in cinnamon and sugar. And I could eat sticks end to end when they're hot out of the fryer. Rick (14:31): Okay. So that was one. Is there another one that's in your little portfolio or like outside of the apple cider? Rachel (14:37): Yeah. So of the seasonal, I mean, apple cider's typically seasonal, but it's not for us. The more exciting donuts, I do a strawberry shortcake donut. And so it has ... We do this thing, we call it a bullseye and it's traditionally called a honeymooner because the hole gets fried with the donut. It's cut out, but then it's fried with it. It creates this little perforated edge so you can peel a portion off and then you fill it like a pie shell. So instead of like a jelly donut, you fill it like a pie shell. So this particular donut gets strawberry glaze around the rim, and then a dab of strawberry marmalade in the bottom, and then it's topped with fresh whipped cream and a fresh cut strawberry on top. Rick (15:22): I'm telling you, for those that are listening, and if you like donuts, make a point. If you're in New York City, it's a quick drive. What is it? 45 minutes away from the city maybe. Get to Montclair. It's a little bit further north to New Paltz, right? Rachel (15:35): Yes. 90 minutes from the city or an hour from Montclair. We're also right by a train station that is 40 minutes from Midtown on the New Jersey Transit Train. Rick (15:45): Awesome. And then share your website. It's just rabblerize.com, right? Rachel (15:48): Yes. Rick (15:50): Okay, cool. Cool. All right. So let me ask you this. Let's put the donuts on the back bar for a minute here. How do you unwind from baking? You talk about these long days. It's not a nine to five gig. You've kind of found your happy place. What's your happy place? What are you doing? How do you kind of take that break and exhale as a mom, you're juggling a lot of occupations, right? Rachel (16:11): So there's a couple different things. If it's the end of the day, I watch a lot of television. I really- Rick (16:19): What are you binging on right now? What are you binging Rachel (16:23): On? Right now, my daughter and I are watching the Top Chef International. So tell me about Rick (16:28): That team a little bit. Why does it work so well for Rachel (16:31): You? I'm not capable of micromanaging. I don't like everything being dependent on me. So I try to have strong, independent people around me who can help lead the charge and carry the weight of the ship. So that's how we built a good team. It eats some people up. Some people really like to have somebody next to them holding their hands every day and they don't fare very well in my organization, but the people who are creative and have drive and really want to be a part of leading the charge forward, they thrive. And that's who I have right now. I have a really, really impressive team right now. Rick (17:18): That's awesome. And there's a nice trust factor too, right? Absolutely. Rachel (17:22): Absolutely. All Rick (17:23): Right. So second round of paying questions here. First car, what was your first car? What Rachel (17:28): Were you- Oh my gosh, an 86 Buick Skylark. Rick (17:33): What color? Give me the Rachel (17:35): Speed. 96. It was gray. The fabric on the top of the car had- The Rick (17:40): Headliner. Rachel (17:42): Yeah, from the roof. And at some point, I think my mom ripped it out and then it had this fuzzy foam. So every time you sat in the car, you would get little fuzzy foam in your hair from the top. It was tragic, really true. Rick (17:58): You know what? Most people listening though are like, "Yeah, I've been in a car like that, or we had a car like that, my first car, that sort of thing." And we've got a teenage son and graduating from eighth grade, it's like I'm thinking in the next year, I'm like, "Oh, I got to think about a car. What's it going to happen? What have a headliner coming away?" I told my Rachel (18:15): Daughter this story about the buzz and the hair. And Rick (18:19): She's like, Rachel (18:19): "That sounds like the coolest car ever." I was like, "It was not cool. There was nothing cool Rick (18:24): About it. " All right. So we talked first car and we always talk music on this program, first album or first cassette because you're of a different generation. Rachel (18:33): I have cassettes. I had cassettes. Oh, man. I think- Rick (18:37): I didn't throw eight track at you. Oh, we Rachel (18:40): Had them though because my grandmother had a Mustang, an old Mustang that had an eight track player still. But no, I think my first cassette was probably Color Me Bad. Rick (18:52): Ooh, okay. That's a good one. That's a little throwback. Yeah, ours and the family, our first cassette was Pool in the Gang celebration. Rachel (19:00): I Rick (19:00): Mean, it was iconic. So let me ask you this. We'll stay on the running the music theme and then running, which is one of your hobbies. Do you listen to music when you're running or do you go sands pods? Rachel (19:11): I either don't have anything or I listen to podcasts and books. I listen to a lot of books, even when I'm working. Rick (19:20): What's a good book that you've listened to that you're like, "I think people should listen to this. " Rachel (19:25): What's it called? Lessons in chemistry. Really Rick (19:28): Good. Tell us about that. Give us the 20 second synopsis. Rachel (19:32): So it's a female scientist in the 50s when women were not given the credit that they should have had for being women in science in the 50s. They really struggled to get time in the lab or get their names published on journals. So it's a fictional account of this woman who's a scientist in the 50s and she ends up raising a daughter on her own and through all the twists and turns in the books, ends up with her own cooking show. So it's got the science end, the cooking end and the women's liberation theme through all of it. It was really, really good. And then follow it up with the exceptions, which is the nonfictional account of the same time period of women in science at MIT, getting the right to have equal pay and structure and all of that as men. Oh, Rick (20:27): Wow. That's kind of cool. So lessons in chemistry, the exceptions. All right. Couple good, best pictures. Rachel (20:33): They are a perfect pair. Rick (20:35): Okay. So by the way, we're listening to our good friend, Rachel Wyman from Rabble Rice Donuts. If you've got a question maybe you'd like to email us, you can email it to the ovenlight@abauri.com. We'd be happy to pass that on to Rachel, create that sort of conversation. And if you send in a question or a comment or something, we might send you a little promotional merchandise. So thank you for listening to The Oven Light. All right. So I picked up a little bit of a story on another one. We had the profile, I think it was from Bloomberg who talked a lot about your business during COVID, and they did a follow-up. I didn't know this until I listened through that podcast, and I think it was Tim, maybe you did a great job, right? You started your own business at \$40,000. It was seed money just over 10 years ago from a bunch of moms. Rick (21:23): I didn't know that. That's pretty powerful. Rachel (21:25): I was working a corporate gig and recipe development and I was creating new breads and I would give away the bread, all of the actual loaves of bread that I'd been working on once a week from my basement apartment. And I reached out to a group of moms who I was friends with that I'd met through my prenatal yoga class because I was pregnant with my third at the time. And they would stop by every Thursday evening and grab a half a dozen loaves of bread and I never charged them anything. I just asked for their feedback to help me in the development process. And when people always say like, "Hey, if you ever wanted to open something on your own, let me know. I'd love to support you. " When I had the opportunity to take over this space that had been functioning as a bakery and the owners were retiring, I cashed in all of my vacation time and sat in the library for a week writing a business plan. Rachel (22:22): And then I pitched it to all of those moms that said, "If you ever open something, let me know. " And I got four people to back my ... So four people put in \$10,000 to back my idea and that's all I had. And that included paying the prior owners first. So all the money that I made on day one was what was in my bank account. Rick (22:47): Wow. Well, I mean, you've come a long way in 11 years and it's remarkable. And to go out and do that, put your money where your mouth is and have that support though. I'm sure they're still your friends, right? Your people that help seed the ... That's fantastic. That's awesome. Rachel (23:06): Yeah. And they helped the people who could helped with the expansion when we moved into a larger space and we've been connected the whole way. Rick (23:14): Got a special place in your heart forever, right? Rachel (23:16): Yeah, absolutely. Rick (23:18): So you've had different roles and I kind of teased at the beginning, right? You've been a head baker, R&D manager, production lead. What do you think role, your owner, founder, all those sorts of things, what's been the most fulfilling of all those roles or is it a combination? Rachel (23:33): I think teaching. I teach baking classes and I travel to different professional events to teach professional baking classes or talk about community or marketing or the different facets of the business end of the bakery that I do. And really connecting with people outside of my organization and hopefully imparting some knowledge has been the most rewarding part of my career. Rick (23:59): Fantastic. Rachel (24:00): And the constant through everything. Through every job that I've ever had, I've had some level of teaching, training, sharing knowledge. Rick (24:09): I could see that. Let's talk about some of the physical things you've had to overcome too, right? Cycling, broken pelvis, now you're still running half marathons and all those sorts of things. I mean, you've had a lot thrown at you and then you throw the physical ailments to try to get through the day. How have you pulled it off? Rachel (24:26): I don't know. I just don't. I don't know the alternative. I'm not going to sit still. Yeah. I found running through the bakery. When I started making donuts, I was only making them on Sundays and the people who were lining up were sweaty and dripping from their long runs. It was pretty gross. And they'd been out for their long runs and they were looking to carve up afterwards. And so I hosted a 4K because I was commemorating 4,000 likes on our Facebook page at the time. Rick (25:00): Congratulations. Yeah. Rachel (25:03): A million years ago and that was Rachel (25:05): A good deal. And so I hosted this 4K fun run to give back to the running community because they were the ones that had been really supporting the donut thing. And I thought that it was really terrible that I was making these people run 2.2 miles and I should run with them to show my support. And I did, and it wasn't awful. And then I thought, "Oh, maybe I'll try it again." And one of my friends told me that it helps to sign up for a race because it'll keep you motivated to keep going back out there. And so naturally, my very first race was a half marathon, three months later. And so I ran my first mile- Rick (25:49): Zero to 60, man. I Rachel (25:51): Ran my first mile in December. I ran my first half marathon in March and I ran the New York City marathon that November. Rick (25:57): Boy, you don't have an off switch. Rachel (25:59): Yeah. And then so I started getting injured. They call them overuse injuries from too soon. And my physical therapist said, "You have to be good at one other thing. You can't just be good at running because then when you can't run, the Rick (26:14): World is Rachel (26:14): Ending," which is accurate. So I took swim lessons at the YMCA and then I thought, well, if I'm swimming, I might as well get on a bike and- Rick (26:24): Triathlon right there. That's awesome. Rachel (26:28): That's how that happened. And then I discovered that my body really enjoys the cross training and the multiple sports rather than just throwing on high mileage running. And so Rick (26:39): I've Rachel (26:39): Continued to really embrace triathlon. Rick (26:42): That's fantastic. So last question for you. So what do you see the future of the baking world? Are there any trends that you like, whether it's a product or a flavor or nutritional or whatever, ingredient? What do you have your eye on? Rachel (26:56): I think that the clean labeling is here to stay. And that's the thing that I hold most deer is just simple ingredient labels without preservatives. And I'm hoping that we continue to educate consumers around what that means and why the donut doesn't taste as good at 5:00 PM as it does at 5:00 AM. Grocery stores aren't really helping our cause with that. But as far as the actual food trends, I'm loving all of the fun that people are having with laminated doughs, but I don't know if you saw it in New York City, the trend is filling donuts with soft serve and I can't think of a better combination than ice cream and donuts. Rick (27:37): Wow. That does sound kind of delightful, doesn't it? Rachel (27:40): Yeah. Yeah. So I'm really into that and that might be coming soon to ravel rice. Rick (27:46): Well, I've tasted the cheeseburger once with a glazed donut as the bun, which was actually pretty good too. Surprisingly. Sweet and salty. Rachel (27:55): We do a maple glazed donut and we've done a bacon, egg, actually tailor hand egg and cheese. I just got half the state of New Jersey's going to be pissed that I said that pork roll and- Rick (28:05): Cut that out, Connor. Cut it out. Rachel (28:09): Breakfast, meat, egg, and cheese on a maple glaze. Rick (28:13): Where was that a couple weeks ago for Ron and I? I didn't even know that existed. Rachel (28:18): Next Rick (28:18): Time. It Rachel (28:19): Was special. Rick (28:20): Next time. Rachel (28:21): We did it on January 1st. It was the hangover special. Rick (28:24): Okay. Well, hey, for those listeners of The Oven Light, I tell you what, we've had a great show. One of the best that I know and one of the best in the business, Rachel Wyman from Rabble Rised Donuts. Thank you so much for joining the program. Again, if you've got a question, send it along to the ovenlight@abaury.com. And for now, the switch is off. The oven light is now off and we'll see you next time around. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of The Oven Light. Until next time when we discuss more about the wonderful world of baking technology, trends and more, the switch is officially off. Goodbye for now. See you next time.