Intro/outro (00:04): It takes a bit of a blend of art and science to get baking just right and having extra eyes, ears, and hands can make a big difference along the way. That's where AB Maori, north America comes into play. We are the team behind industrial and artisan bakers that help optimize success. We'll discuss more on this episode of the Oven light, so let's get going. Flip the switch.

Rick (00:31): Welcome back everybody. The switch is on the oven. Light is now on. We've got a special guest today and I'm pretty excited about this. This gentleman is a family friend also in the sports world in the Midwest to the US in St. Louis. Very well known, has been part of bringing major sporting events and activities to the city of St. Louis for a long time now, the chief advisory officer for the St. Louis Sports Commission. After serving for 28 years as the president and CEO of the commission, spent some time at the St. Louis Visitors Commission. Also some time with umsl. That's the University of Missouri, St. Louis for some of those lay laypeople out there. Welcome today, Frank Vito.

Frank (01:18): Thank you Rick.

Rick (01:19): So excited to have you here.

Frank (01:21): I'm so excited to be here.

Rick (01:23): And here's the thing, you're on a baking program. What's the deal? Seriously,

Frank (01:27): And I can't bake.

Rick (01:28): You certainly can't. We're going to get into all that, but hey, let's jump right into this sports thing because it's in your blood, it's part of your history, it's part of your life. How did this whole thing start with you? I mean, it's more than a bug bitch you for life.

Frank (01:43): Oh, absolutely. After I graduated from college at Rutgers University in New Jersey, I went to law school and I stuck with law school for two weeks. Okay. I was pretty impressed. I lasted that long and what I really wanted to do was work in sports and I thought a law degree would be a good way to do that. I was wrong. A law degree helps you be a lawyer and that wasn't really what I wanted to do. So I went to graduate school at the University of Massachusetts in sport management. There were, I believe, two sport management programs at the time. Now I think there are two universities that don't have a sport management program. And so we kind of got in on the ground floor of sports business and you talk about getting bitten by a bug. That was it. We had kind of a bird's eye view of the jobs that I had in minor league baseball, major league baseball, collegiate athletics of the sports industry. Just start to really grow by leaps and bounds.

Rick (02:48): Were you the kid that just woke up on Saturday mornings looking at the sports page and just going through the stats?

Frank (02:55): How did you know me back in town?

Frank (02:57): No, that's exactly right. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York and I used to wait for the sporting news to be delivered every Saturday morning in the mail and I would sit there and read box scores of minor and major league baseball games from all across the country. And growing up in Brooklyn, I didn't have a lot of opportunities to play. My dad worked. We had one car my mother didn't drive and we played punch ball in the street, not little league baseball in the field. And so this was kind of my way to be close to sports even though I wasn't much of an athlete in terms of opportunities to play organized sports.

Rick (03:43): Alright, so let's turn the page a little bit. You've been part of some major events here, right? We're going to hold off on the musical awards, which are coming up here in December and it's going to be another exciting time for you. But then part of the Final four, I mean, boy, what a matchup you had to North Carolina and Illinois, countless other events for wrestling, the frozen four for hockey. If you had to pick a highlight of all these things and kind of wrapping up a career, what would you choose and

Frank (04:11): Why? Yeah, when I get that question, I usually say it's like asking me to pick my favorite child. They're all wonderful in their own way. So for high profile has to be the NCA Men's Model four. I don't remember a time where St. Louis really shown so brightly as that event. We just all felt good about St. Louis and it couldn't have been better weather, it couldn't have been a more competitive event. It was great to have Illinois here and all of that. You talk about an event that we're so proud to have built. I tell you, the NCA wrestling championships have been so wonderful. We've done them 12 times in St. Louis since 2000. And when I go out and speak to groups, I usually say, how many of you are college wrestling fans? Nobody raises their hand. Okay. And then I said, if I told you that St. Louis has hosted 12 NCA championships and college wrestling fans have spent in excess of \$130 million here over the past 20 years, how many of you're college wrestling fans? Everybody puts up their hands. So I'm so excited that they we're able to build something and grow that championship into a very special event and a special one for St. Louis.

Rick (05:34): Is it fair to say on the wrestling side that that statistic is gut wrenching? By the way? That's a wrestling move. Alright. It's in the Olympics, right? Am I right on that? Frank?

Frank (05:43): Rick, you know everything about sports. I should be interviewing you.

Rick (05:47): No, we're having a good time here. You talked about UMass earlier and there's two programs as you mentioned there, the premier sports administration programs, one this lowly school up in Massachusetts, the University of Massachusetts. Great. It's a great program. Minor league and really the whole scheme of things. I'm kidding. I went to Ohio University, which has a sports administration program and was the first in the nation to do that and had to deal with the LA Dodgers for interns. No, but I mean really, you said you went to law school. What did UMass really teach it? Because it's a great program for people who want to get into this background. As you mentioned, there's a lot of schools that do it, but why UMass?

Frank (06:26): Well, I think UMass saw what was going on in Athens, Ohio and saw an opportunity to grow a program that was going to be developing in popularity. I had some incredible good fortune that year in between dropping out of law school and going to graduate school. And I don't know that anybody will remember this, but back in the late 1970s, instead of pitchers running in from the bullpen, they would often drive them in a car. And at the time it was a car company called Dotson, now Nissan. And they created bullpen cars for several teams.

Rick (07:08): I love them. I love them.

Frank (07:09): They're awesome. Well, I won the Los Angeles Dodgers bullpen car. Okay, what is that? What's out in the parking lot? No, it's not. No, that was

Frank (07:21): 45 years ago. It was a good car but not that good a car. And so I actually drove that car for eight years and went out to Los Angeles to pick it up and it was almost a sign to me, okay, you left law school, you're not sure how to get into sports that you've loved forever. And I won that car. I ended up driving it for eight years and it was like, this is going to be okay. And I took a look at the programs available. There were two, I applied to both of 'em. Truth be told, I got into one of them and I didn't get into the other one. So that was my choice. And God bless UMass for having the foresight to start a program that is flourishing now and is really an entree for people who want to work in the sports industry.

Rick (08:18): Absolutely. I've had friends who go there, it's a great program and excited to hear that about the bullpen car. I didn't know that with you. That's an outstanding story. Alright, so Frank, I don't know if you're semi-retired, I don't know what we call it, but as this chief advisory position, we went through some times and I don't know if the pandemic weighed on you at all, but you picked up a new hobby and it was nothing about collecting baseball cards or collecting stamps or anything like that. Another passion. And you picked up the passion of baking. I'm trying to pull this all into baking and there's some truth there and you can laugh all you want, but you got really into it, didn't you?

Frank (08:58): Well, there's a good friend of mine at AB Maori named Greg Strauss and Greg has been connected to the Sports Commission, St. Louis Sports Commission for years. So much so that I am proud to tell the world that the St. Louis Sports Commission is the only sports commission with an official yeast and that is Fleischmann's yeast is our official yeast. And Greg and I would always talk about that, joke about that. And then once we did get a little serious about baking and he offered me a private baking lesson with he and his wife at their home and I went to learn how to bake bread and I loved to do that. It was easy enough that I could sort of figure it out. The yeast rose overnight so I didn't have to do a whole lot to it, but it kind of became a hallmark, a family holiday tradition. We don't have a family holiday at our place unless dad bakes some bread.

Rick (10:09): That's pretty cool.

Frank (10:10): So that's about my entire repertoire of baking activities, but it's good enough that it counts for a lot. Do

Rick (10:17): You think there's an analogy here when you talk about baking, getting the right ingredients, the right things have to be right on the countertop, kind of like a sports team. You got to have the right ingredients. We've been watching baseball playoffs recently in

Frank (10:30): College football.

Rick (10:31): Do you think there's something there?

Frank (10:32): I think there's something there and I think that it's like a lot of other things is you just have to do it. Okay. So the idea of baking bread seemed very difficult to me until the first time that I did it. And I realized it was not that difficult and it doesn't even take that many ingredients. You can make a wonderful loaf of bread with flour and water and yeast and a little bit of salt. And then I started adding a little bit of rosemary and some black olives, a little bit of cheese and before you know it, it's the star of the meal. And so yeah, you've got to try it. I love eating. We're Italian, we eat bread all the time. And so lemon meringue pie, little bit beyond me, but I can make a pretty good loaf of bread.

Rick (11:23): So what is your favorite loaf to make and would your family agree with you?

Frank (11:29): Oh, absolutely. It's a classic New York Times recipe. It's like a no need kind of peasant bread that you let it kind of put it together in the afternoon. You let it rise overnight for 16, 18 hours. And then I also got the oven that is my friend that I never knew what to do with before. I think it's the one we got for our wedding 42 years ago and had no idea what to make in it. And now we make bread in it all the time and sometimes you get a couple loaves going at once. This past Christmas was the first time I ever tried a gluten-free bread and I learned that a gluten-free bread is made with a consistency that's more like batter than a bread, which is made more like dough. And so that was a revelation to me, pretty basic for all the real Baker listeners to this podcast, but I'm a neophyte when it comes to that. But it was really, really fascinating to see how different types of bread products come together.

Rick (12:49): Absolutely. Alright. Now it's one of our favorite times in the show. It's the hot pan, right? Time for some hot questions. Let's see what Frank, we're going to throw 'em at. You see what you got. Favorite item to eat at a sporting event.

Frank (13:04): Do they have eggplant Rashan sandwiches at sporting

Rick (13:07): Events saying what kind of event are you going to? Are we talking about bocce ball or what?

Frank (13:13): Yeah,

Rick (13:13): On the hill.

Frank (13:14): I'm always thinking about that. When we went to my first time at the Seattle Mariners ballpark several years ago, they had a stand with Asian food and it was called Intentional Wok. That's my alley. I've never forgotten that. That was a classic ballpark food. My other favorite concession stand food in a ballpark is out in San Francisco. The garlic fries. They're pretty special. And I think you can get a Primanti brother sandwich at the ballpark in Pittsburgh.

Rick (13:51): Absolutely. You can. Oh yeah, you can get it at Acrisure Stadium as my son still calls Heinz Field as well as PNC Park for the Pirates. But begs one other question. All right, we're going to quick little sidebar from the hot pan. We'll get back to question number two. You talk about cost of ballpark food,

Frank (14:09): You

Rick (14:09): Probably love the field of dreams like I do. Sure. Remember the part in there. It's like, so what do you want? Well, I want people to leave me alone. No, I mean, what do you want? I'll take a dog and a beer, two dogs, two hot dogs and two beers for seven bucks in late 1980s. I don't know if that really happened. Did it?

Frank (14:24): I don't know. But that would cost \$200 now, right?

Rick (14:27): Yes, it would feed a family of 12. Okay, so second question. Cake donut. Yeast donut or off the board and a croissant.

Frank (14:40): I'm going to go cake donut on

Rick (14:41): That one. Okay. Now is it plain or what do you lather it up with?

Frank (14:45): I'm a plain kind of baked good person. Okay. Like cheesecake, New York, cheesecake plain,

Rick (14:54): No berries or anything on the side.

Frank (14:56): No berries,

Rick (14:56): No whip topping,

Frank (14:57): No berries,

Rick (14:58): None of that. No

Frank (14:59): Berries. And another one pizza. No pepperoni, no sausage, no pineapple.

Rick (15:10): Are we ending the show right now? Because I don't know if we can go on, but No

Frank (15:14): Pizza's good. Pizza cheesecake.

Rick (15:16): Okay.

Frank (15:16): Plain,

Rick (15:17): Plain Jane.

Frank (15:17): Yeah,

Rick (15:17): Nothing wrong with that. That's good. That's good. Alright, third question. You've had your hands in a lot of things and you talk about this special car from the La Dodgers bullpen favorite sports memorabilia item that you've kept over all these years. And just so you know, for our listeners, Frank's had his own bobblehead going back years and years. You still have a few of those, right?

Frank (15:44): I have a few Bobbleheads. They embarrass me every time they show up anywhere. But you talk about a piece of baseball memorabilia. When I was eight years old in 1963, my dad's sister, my aunt Grace worked in an office and one of the people who worked for her was dating a guy named Cleat Boyer. Okay. Cleat Boyer was the third baseman for the New York Yankees during their world championship run in the early sixties. And Cleat Boyer passed around a baseball to the 1963 Yankees. It's faded a little bit, but that's 60 years ago now and you can still very easily make out Mickey Mantle signature and Yogi Berra signature and Ralph Houck was the manager and Whitey Ford and believe Joe Pepitone was on that team and Bobby Richardson and Tom Tresch and

Rick (16:45): Scen was he runner

Frank (16:46): Scen was on that team and I think Al Downing was one of the pitchers. Wow.

Rick (16:52): What's Al Downing mostly known for? I guess in the scheme of baseball? He

Frank (16:57): Threw a no hitter at some point, didn't he?

Rick (17:00): Al Downing, didn't he throw the big home run ball

Frank (17:02): To

Rick (17:03): Hank

Frank (17:04): Aaron? Seven

Rick (17:04): 15 He was pitching for the Dodgers. Right?

Frank (17:06): For the Dodgers.

Rick (17:06): And who caught the ball and the bullpen out?

Frank (17:09): You did?

Rick (17:10): No, it was not me. Thank you very much. Thank you Frank. It was a guy named Tom house. Oh

Frank (17:14): My gosh. Yeah.

Rick (17:16): If you want to go down the, I

Frank (17:17): Do know more sports if you

Rick (17:18): Want to go down this path path. Right. Million dollar arm about the Pirates, a couple Indian baseball players.

Frank (17:24): Yep.

Rick (17:24): The guy who was coaching him along was Tom

Frank (17:26): House, right? Yep. There you go. And I should give you my baseball.

Rick (17:31): No, no for you pulled out of that. That is awesome.

Frank (17:33): Very special.

Rick (17:34): Alright, so you're talking about growing up in the Northeast, you went to Rutgers, I mean grade school, high school, and Staten Island. Do you get back there at all and do you try to find your way to a ballpark or a stadium or an arena

Frank (17:47): All the time. I get back there, I'm pretty excited for several reasons to go back to the New York area. My mom and dad are getting on in years, but we have both of them. They live in nearby Whiting, New Jersey. They're 93 years old, so I love to get back there as often as I can. And just as special or maybe even a little more so is we have two sons and our older son Greg lives in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn, and we are going to have our first grandchild in January. And the coolest thing about that is that I was born in Brooklyn and she will be born in Brooklyn. And so we get to New York as often as we can. I would go to Yankee Stadium even if there was no game being played there. I love that. Ballpark has all my childhood memories. It's the new one now. Of course not, but baseball is such a great way to bond. I know that you and Cameron have bonded over baseball. My sons and I have done the same and I just have so many rich sports memories from New York that I love to go to Rutgers football games. That was at the Northwestern game earlier this season and I love to go to sporting it's anywhere.

Rick (19:13): That's awesome. Fantastic. I mean there's a book out there, George W. Bush wrote about his father portrait of my father, and you've got a little bit of that moment, maybe portrait of my grandfather coming along. Now your other son, let's talk about him because we are at odds here again for those that are listening at home, he's going to Florida State University, which is they've had a resurgence in football and in my alma mater, the Gators have had a little bit of a tough run this year. So how is it going down in Tallahassee? I

Frank (19:43): Knew this podcast was going to come to blow us. Well he was a student there and he's now on the staff there. He works in the psychology department. His wife also went to school there and works on the staff right now. And the reason that they chose Florida State is that my son is a circus performer and Florida State University's the only university in the world, I guess with a three ringing circus tent on it and a very, very active student circus. It's 77 years old now, I believe it started just after World War ii and my son was a trapeze flyer there and actually went on to have a career in performing in circuses around the world and was one of very few people who could actually do a triple somersault on the flying trapeze, get caught and come back. It's not really a good bar skill because it's hard to have a trapeze rigging a bar, but it's really remarkable and thrilling to watch your kid perform on the

Rick (20:53): Flying trapeze. It's incredible. And I'll tell you two comments on that is growing up in central Florida, our family, we would vacation up near Pine Mountain, Georgia,

Frank (21:02): Callaway Garden,

Rick (21:03): Callaway Gardens in Florida State, always had the circus performers there over the summer doing performances. And we saw them time after time. Outstanding stuff. My second one is we're after Halloween, but there's a thing in St. Louis where you have to say a joke, tell a joke to get some candy. So at least I'm going to throw this one out of you. I think it's topical. So let's say you're walking down an alley in Brooklyn and there we go. You get faced with a whole bunch of clowns. What do you do?

Frank (21:35): Oh, there's a pregnant pause in the middle of this podcast now go ahead. Tell me what do I do?

Rick (21:40): You go for the juggler,

Frank (21:41): You go for the juggler. There

Rick (21:42): You go. I'm sorry. That's really, let's keep that in. Do not edit that out. That stays in this, right?

Frank (21:47): That is actually quite good. And

Rick (21:49): People are thinking right now, these guys are a bunch of clowns, but alright,

Frank (21:53): That is actually quite good. And I have to make a comment about what you said. And my son did perform for three summers at Callaway Gardens. As I knew we were going to come to blows over this, I also knew that we would find some common ground. And the question that I get more frequently is, how did your son end up in the circus? And my answer to that question is, it's genetic. His father is a clown.

Rick (22:18): So

Frank (22:18): There you go.

Rick (22:19): That's pretty good. Well, if you want to know anything about the clowns here on the oven light, feel free to send us a note. Send us an email at the oven light@abmario.com, the oven light@abmario.com. If you've got a question for Frank or you want to stay connected or send me a note as well and we'll be happy to send you some swags. So stay in touch with us. Alright, so let's go turn our attention towards a huge event and it comes up annually. We teased it earlier, comes up in December, and I'm looking at the sport coat you're wearing and it's got a great number six. And we're not talking about Julius serving, he was a great number six, but we're talking about one guy and something that he is known for his sportsmanship. Do you want to talk a little bit about the Musial Awards?

Frank (23:05): Yeah, we're talking about Stan Musial, probably the most beloved baseball cardinal of them all. Someone I got to know a little bit when I was working at the University of Missouri St. Louis, one of his daughters was a student there and he helped us do some fundraising. And over the years his personality and his baseball talent have become legendary. But if there's a classier, more graceful, kinder, more wonderful spirit in the game, I don't know who it is. And so the St. Louis Sports Commission was looking to produce an event with a higher purpose. We have a foundation and part of the organization brings high profile sporting events like the Final Four to town, which we talked about already. But our charitable side was looking for a higher purpose and to create an event that could shine through many other events in sports. And we settled on sportsmanship and we spoke with the musical family to use Stan's name. They were so gracious to allow us to do that. And every November we produce a live event called the Musical Awards, which are for extraordinary sportsmanship and we honor high profile lifetime sportsmen and women. And then we also honor those you may not know about that do incredibly things, incredibly wonderful things in sports to respect the game, to respect their opponents. And over the past 17 years, we have won countless semi awards for our TV show, which is now produced by a company called Al Roker Entertainment. And it is,

Rick (24:54): Well he's kind of a big name he, he's kind of

Frank (24:56): A big name. The live show takes place every year on the Saturday before Thanksgiving. And then the show is edited down and appears on CBS nationally during the Christmas season. This year it will air on Christmas Eve coming out of NFL football. We had 2 million viewers last year. And the stories we tell are just so heartwarming and the event is so meaningful that we put a pack of tissues out at every seat.

Rick (25:31): I've seen that. I've been there. I know, and it's compelling.

Frank (25:34): I remember when Cal Ripkin, who is our lifetime honoree, came on stage and he said, I saw this pack of tissues. I didn't know what it was for. He said, I put it in my pocket. That was that. He said, I broke it out before the end of the first story. It was that. It was that wonderful. I love to see, we love to see the reactions of people like another one I think about is Wayne Gretzky. We honored Dwayne and Janet Gretzky as our lifetime achievement award winners a couple years ago. And they came on stage and Wayne literally said, I'm just a hockey player. Janet's just a dancer. We don't belong on this stage with this greatness. You mentioned a guy a few minutes ago named Hank Aaron. We presented Hank Aaron the Lifetime Achievement award in sportsmanship, and he said it was the greatest honor of his life in Stan Musial's name. That's powerful

Rick (26:33): When you have people who are red, right? I mean so great that your nickname is the great one. Right?

Frank (26:39): Exactly.

Rick (26:40): Or the home run leader.

Frank (26:42): Exactly. And so the high profile honorees are wonderful, but those you just learn about for the first time are incredible. And this year, for the first time in 17 years, we're honoring an animal for good sportsmanship.

Rick (27:02): Oh, now the interest has been peaked.

Frank (27:04): Alright,

Rick (27:05): Tune in.

Frank (27:07): I'm going to give you a little tip on this one, but we're honoring a horse named Cody's Wish. And if you don't know the story of Cody's Wish, Google it. It's the most incredible story how that horse befriended a young boy profoundly with profound medical issues and was interested in horses. And that horse came by and has a special affinity with young Cody, so much so that they named the horse after him. Cody's Wish. And he's running this year in the breeder stakes for the Breeder's Cup for the second time and has had a very rich and distinguished career. And Cody's Wish is going to be honored at the Music awards.

Rick (27:57): Who's got the tissues in the room here? Are you kidding me? Man?

Frank (28:00): It's awesome. It's an awesome story and we couldn't be more excited. Our top honorees this year, our high profile honorees are going to be former US senator Bill Bradley, who played the basketball at Princeton and for the New York Knicks and was one of my childhood sports heroes. And then our extraordinary character award this year goes to Adam Wainwright, who had just a magnificent pitching career here in St. Louis. And everybody will tell you he was a better guy than a pitcher and he was a darn good pitcher.

Rick (28:36): Absolutely. I mean, he was a St. Louis Guy through and through as well. Alright, hey, so if you're listening out there, you're driving to your car, you're in your office, you're going for a run, put that on your schedule for Christmas Eve, take a break from football, watch the music awards on CBS. It'll be a time that well spent and great storytelling.

Frank (28:55): It will be. And all of our stories after the show are posted@museumawards.com. And so you can go back and look at some of our previous stories and definitely have tissues with you because they're, they're not sad, they're heartwarming and they're so very real and we're so proud to be able to, we call 'em the most important awards in sports because we consider sportsmanship to be the most important part of sports. And if you don't respect the rules, you don't respect the game, you don't respect the opponent, then you don't have sports. And so we're so happy to celebrate sportsmanship and set all these wonderful stories up as examples for us. All the messages, if somebody falls, pick 'em up and that's what life is all about.

Rick (29:45): Absolutely. Thanks for sharing that. Alright, so before we go, we got a few last hot pan questions, so let's heat up that plate again. Here we go. Do you consider a bratwurst, a hot bratwurst on a hot dog bun? Is that a sandwich?

Frank (30:01): You're talking to a vegetarian, so no, that's not a sandwich.

Rick (30:06): Okay. What if it's a mission impossible?

Frank (30:11): A beyond burger? Yeah, exactly. I guess that's a sandwich then. Yeah.

Rick (30:15): Okay. Favorite bread item at a restaurant anywhere. Could be up in New York, could be in the Hill District, which is known for Italian here. Someplace that's had unbelievable bread that you're like, I just here for the bread.

Frank (30:28): Okay, I'm going to deflect that question just a little bit. Okay. Because you said bread item and I am addicted to a very specific bread related item and that would be pretzels. Okay. I love pretzels. If there were only two foods, okay, that I could eat forever, they would be eggplant Parmesan sandwiches.

Rick (30:57): You weren't lying.

Frank (30:58): I wasn't lying. And

Rick (31:00): Pretzels. Okay. Okay. Here's the question though. Soft like the ones you can get salt or not salt, you see 'em at the ballpark. Are we talking like pretzels and the bag,

Frank (31:09): The crunchier the better. Okay. The crunchier, the darker the better. Now that doesn't mean that we didn't go to Berlin and eat pretzels there that were absolutely sublime. And that doesn't mean that I can get through the Philadelphia airport without buying some soft dory, delicious mustardy Philadelphia pretzels. But you give me an extra dark special out of the TZ bag or the splits bag and I'm in heaven.

Rick (31:42): I'm not here to promote any product. But I will say when we go through the Pittsburgh airport and you have that anti Anns right next to the gate, there's something about that. It's pretty magnificent. The other is, if you're talking about crunchy pretzels, and I'm not here, but although I am a personal proponent of Hershey and Dots, pretzels.in South Dakota, whatever she did with that seasoning is probably one of the best things.

Frank (32:05): Pretzel addict right here.

Rick (32:07): Yeah, absolutely. Good to know. Hey Frank, have to thank you for coming on the program, talking a little bit about baking, talking a little bit about sports. We've got great days ahead and I wish you all the best. Thanks for your service for the St. Louis community. And for now, keep on baking, brother. You're doing a great job.

Frank (32:24): I was a little scared about coming on to a baking podcast, but this was a lot of fun.

Rick (32:30): Awesome. Hey, so for now, listen up again. If you've got a question, you can shoot it to us at the oven light@abmaori.com. Thanks for listening and for now, the switch is off, the oven, light is off, and we'll see you next time.

Intro/outro (32:48): We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Oven Light. Until next time, when we discuss more about the wonderful world of baking technology trends and more, the switch is officially off. Goodbye for now. See you next time.