Intro/Outro (00:04): It takes a bit of a blend of art and science to get baking just right and having extra eyes, ears, and hands can make a big difference along the way. That's where Ab Maori, north America comes into play. We are the team behind industrial and artisan bakers that help optimize success. We'll discuss more on this episode of the Oven Light. So let's get going. Flip the switch. Rick (00:31): Alright everybody, the switch is back on. Welcome back to the oven light. So we've got a great guest for you today and if you like cooking and just doing good, you're in the right place. So lemme tell you about our guest. He's been a chef for the past few decades, owned a successful restaurant right here in St. Louis and recently closed for very good reasons we'll tell you about. Served as a culinary director at a development academy now serves as the executive chef for the new Build. Ronald McDonald House here in St. Louis. St. Louis, born, but also lived in Chicago and Connecticut. We're talking today with Chef Matt Boshart. Welcome to the Oven Light Matt. Matt (01:14): Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Rick (01:16): Alright, so we're going to go fast and furious. We have these questions, we call 'em the hot pan Questions. Sounds great. So the oven is warmed up. Here we go. Baked. Good of choice to get your morning going. And what is the drink to go with it? Matt (01:27): Well, definitely in a cappuccino and we have a nice little cappuccino bar at home, so I definitely have a cappuccino and if I was going to a baked good item, a blueberry muffin, old school. Rick (01:37): Okay. Matt (01:38): Topping or something. Rick (01:39): By the way, not to give props to McDonald's, but I do like the lattes. I think the McCafe lattes are pretty good. Matt (01:46): I have a very nicest express machine at home, so it's rare that I have anything coffee outside of my house. Rick (01:51): Alright, we're going to continue on this little McDonald's theme and we're going to talk about the Ronald McDonald House charities in a minute. But what's your favorite item on the menu as you bring white castles into our taping? Matt (02:01): You would expect me to bring donuts or Rick (02:04): Muffins or bagels or something easy. Totally z. But on the golden arches Matt (02:07): On for breakfast, man, a sausage, egg, and cheese biscuit by far I would have one three days a week if I could. Something about 'em. And then for lunch at McDonald's, I mean, I honestly switch it up all the time. Not that I go often, but when I do, I'll go rotate between a Big Mac or Rick (02:24): A quarter. It's not like they're just lying around the Ronald McDonald house. Matt (02:27): No. Rick (02:28): Okay. All right. Just want to make sure all, so you consider yourself more of a chef and maybe not as much a baker, but if somebody had a baking request, what would you be baking? Matt (02:38): Well, if it was request, I would honor whatever they wanted. But I think what I enjoy, the simple, like I said, I'm kind of a purist with in all things and so blueberry muffins or focaccia bread or something on banana bread and my wife says I make the best banana bread. So those Rick (02:54): Things, looking for that on the table here right Matt (02:55): Now, I don't see it. See, expect. And that's why I brought the wine cancel because you would expect that. Rick (02:59): Wow. Okay. We'll have you on next April Fools too, I guess, but alright, so one more hot pan question. Holidays approaching right here in St. Louis and across the US you have maybe a baking story, maybe a relative, or is there something around the holidays that just brings it all together and you're like, wow, this is it. Matt (03:16): The holidays remind me of my grandmother, my mom's mom, and she would enjoy her bush beer. And often maybe sometimes too much. We're Rick (03:27): Not judging, we don't judge on the other light. Matt (03:29): Not at all. And then one particular Thanksgiving, if I had to guess, I might've been like 10, 12 years old or something, and my parents and everyone's around enjoying their bush and probably their whiskey and all that, right? Well, before I could consume any of that, and my grandma always made cheesecakes. She was the best cheesecake maker and we always had cheesecake at every function, whether it was a birthday party in the summer or Thanksgiving or Christmas, Rick (03:54): She infuse anything into it or was Matt (03:55): No just old school. Well, she would change it up. Sometimes it'd be chocolate or Oreo crust or traditional graham cracker. So turtle or raspberry, whatever. But it was always cheesecakes. And one particularly Thanksgiving, she had too many, I think, bush beers and kept telling her everyone how she was the greatest cheesecake baker in the world. As the night progressed, she kept repeating it and repeating it. And I just remember my parents and my aunt and uncle just laughing like, Hey Jeanette, do you make cheesecakes by chance? It was one of those, Rick (04:26): You Matt (04:27): Just Rick (04:27): Baed her. Matt (04:28): And I think she went to bed that night saying, I make the best cheesecakes. Rick (04:34): Wow. Fell asleep. Just saying it. Matt (04:37): Okay. Yeah. So the holidays remind me of her and my grandmother Rick (04:41): Cheesecakes. Do you ever make cheesecake then? Matt (04:42): I do. I actually like to make cheesecakes. Yeah. And I enjoy eating them too. Rick (04:46): Is there any special secret? Matt (04:47): I have many, I guess. Okay. Do you have her recipe? Probably, yes, I probably do. It's not one I probably utilize, but I probably have it somewhere. Yes. Okay. I tell the secrets to the cheesecake is a lot of people would get upset when they crack, right? Yeah. Have you ever seen the cheesecake crack and split the top? And usually it's, it's like a blowing glass. If you cool it down too fast, then that's when the glass could break. And so the cheesecake is the same way. If you cool it, take it out of the oven right away, that's when it sometimes cracks. You need to dial everyone, open a door to the oven, put stick a spoon in there and let it sit in there until the oven's completely cool. And so heat it cools down slower and therefore it prevents so's not a shock to the system. Right. Okay. And if it does crack, that's what ganache chocolate ganache is for. Just pour right over in. Exactly. Or cherries or something. Right. Rick (05:32): Whipped cream. I love it. Alright. Alright. We're going to get into the nitty gritty now. So let's go back to your roots a little bit. I don't dunno if it's fair to say you have a fascination with food, but your life's work is behind it. So how did this whole idea of preparing great meals for other people, it's very kind of servant in a way, and now it's part of your life's work. We're going to get into Ronald McDonald House too, but where did this all start? Matt (05:55): Well, I got started in a career because was in seventh grade and I asked my mom for \$20 to do something or whatever. I don't even remember. I just asked her for money and she's like, go get a job. And I think she was joking. Would any young teenager who was annoying you probably, and I'm like, you know what? Okay. And I did. And we were living in southwestern Connecticut and I went and got a job at a little greasy spoon, like a little diner. I got a job immediately, literally that same day. And I came back and was like, I got a job. So screw you. Rick (06:27): Yeah, Matt (06:28): I pretty much have been in the food and beverage industry ever since. Rick (06:30): What did you do with the greasy Matt (06:31): Spoon? I drove my bike there every day after, so I was in seventh grade, it was the summer going into my eighth grade, I guess, or right before school ended seventh grade. I would drive my bike there after school or after they closed at three and I'd sweep 'em off the floors and it was like an eat rite. It was like a little counter service and had a handful of booths in there. And then it got to a point and on Saturdays they would let me come in and pull lasagna or something out of the oven and plate lasagnas. They kept a panel lasagna on Saturdays, those their special, and they had it in the back room in an oven. I literally would take a piece of lasagna out of the pan, put tomato sauce in a plate, and that's the only job I had. Rick (07:08): Pretty good gig. Yeah. Matt (07:10): Do Rick (07:10): You still lasagna to this day? Matt (07:11): Oh yeah, I do too. And then eventually then they would eventually let me smash burgers on flat top. Rick (07:16): Wait, you were smashing burgers before it became the fad here in the last few Matt (07:19): Years? Yeah. Yeah, I was at eighth grade. Rick (07:21): Is there anything you need to know about a smash burger? Right. Matt (07:24): Well, I would eat a million of 'em. Well, yeah, so that's how I got started in the industry and been in food and beverage ever Rick (07:32): Since. We're going to fast forward to St. Louis A. Little bit. You're a chef at a popular place, and I believe we're going to talk about the same one Frazier's Brown bag before you started your own business. Edibles and Essentials. We'll come to that in a minute, but I would tell you my story. It was near the Anheuser-Busch Brewery and they had an awesome Michelob Amber Bach draft with the glassware, the whole presentation. They did a great job with the stellar TWA chais, but big ab count during my time there, but love Frazier. So tell us about Frazier's and how you made it there and what you Matt (08:03): Did. Well, Frazier and I to this day are very close and good. So there is a real Frazier. I didn't know that. Yes, sir. And he and I have remained close for through the years, was looking for a change at the time. And I went back and forth between working in kitchens and actually I did a lot of time working in dining rooms as a server and a bartender at various places before that. And at that time I was kind of burnt out on the kitchen. So I went to Frazier's and started as a waiter Matt (08:26): And I was waiting tables for about three weeks and I really, really immediately appreciated the cuisine he was serving and the detail that he went to in the cuisine. And I could tell that it was legit. After about three weeks of working there as a server, I told him, I'm like, Hey, I'm a chef and I really like what you're doing here. Maybe I can help you in the kitchen. And that was the end of it. I mean, he immediately took me off the floor the next day I think, and threw me in the kitchen. That's Rick (08:51): Fantastic. Matt (08:51): And then so I ran the kitchen there for many years up until basically until I got married and decided that my wife and I, we needed to spend a little more time together. And working 70 hours as a chef at that time was a little much. Yeah, absolutely. Of course. And then later I go open a restaurant which threw that in the toilet. Sure. There Rick (09:08): Goes that time. So for the St. Louis listeners, why was it called Brown Bag? It was Frazier's Brown bag. I don't think they use the name Matt (09:15): Anymore. No, they don't. He kind of dropped that name. But originally he was just did carry out only. Oh, I didn't know that. And it was just, he had three tables in a place, if you remember, if you were ever there when they had the small bar, the original bar. Now he's gone through a remodel about, I guess maybe 10, 12 years ago, maybe more. But he used to have a real small bar with four bar stools and had a few tables in there. And so he didn't mostly carry out. And so that's where the brown bag came from. I Rick (09:39): Never knew that. Matt (09:40): I never knew that. And then as he evolved and remodeled the restaurant numerous times, I mean he dropped the brown bag because he wasn't really doing the carryout. Rick (09:46): I get it. Alright. So you've also helped classically trained some other chefs. Why do you think it's important to go back and help people and to help educate and help grow other people's talents along the way? Matt (09:59): Yeah, shaping young minds is the way we viewed it. Yeah. I ran whole culinary air for a while, the culinary program over there. And at that time, again, I was looking for those kind of coincided with leaving Frazier's, right? Wanted to find something that was a little bit more nine to five ish or not 67 hours a week. And so I got a job teaching culinary school and got into management with 'em. But I still to this day love educating people about food. I still teach classes from that time to time at Kitchen Conservatory if I can throw them a little prop here. So I still love teaching and I do it even now, my job at the Ronald McDonald House, I mean, I'm constantly educating my staff and even the team members of mine and then the volunteer groups that come in multiple times a week. I don't know, it's in my DNAI guess. I just enjoy it. Rick (10:48): We're going to get to Ronald McDonald House after this next question. Sure. The next question is, you had your own business edibles and essentials. So how was it going out on your own and putting your shingle on the roof and here you are? Matt (10:59): Well, finally, I was at a point in my career where I was tired of working for other people. I was tired of working, making money for other people, and I know I can do this myself. And so I opened the restaurant. Originally I was going to open a food truck and actually I was looking for property for a commissary, for a food truck. I had a food truck in mind at the time and found the property where my restaurant ended up and loved it so much. I'm like, it's too beautiful of a piece of property. Had this beautiful patio and all that. I can't use this as just as a commissary. So I opened a restaurant first and then subsequently opened up a french fry food truck, which was not the original concept I had in the first place. Rick (11:34): French fries. Matt (11:35): Yes. I had essentially fries. Rick (11:37): Essentially Fries Matt (11:38): Was the name of the food truck. It had about a three year run or so. Rick (11:41): Okay. And what was special about the french fries, I assure you had some great mayo in there too, to make Matt (11:46): It healthy. Truffle mayonnaise. Yeah, there you go. And a smoked ketchup. And then we did traditional Belgian fruits. And people to this day still tell me they're the best ride in St. Louis. We've won a handful of awards for them through the years, but yeah. Rick (11:59): Awesome. So how did you land on the name edibles and Essentials? Because edibles has a different terminology Matt (12:04): Today. You're right. Were you ahead of the curve or what? No, I didn't see that curve coming when I came up with the name, honestly, because I had a market and a cafe. So in my mind I was serving edibles as in food cuisine. And then I had the essentials because I had jams and jellies and pastas. I had little market shelves and I sold even knives and pots and pans. So I had edibles and essentials like food and pantry essentials. And so this was well before what we would consider edibles now or what we see in that industry. And so after I opened it, I was like, I kind of wish I would've had a different name to it. Sometimes everyone was someone, I had a couple people walk in the front door, look around my restaurant and be like, this isn't what I thought it was. And they would leave. So can't Rick (12:50): Please everybody. Matt (12:51): Right, right. Yeah. That's where the name came from and it had a good run about eight years. Rick (12:55): So before you tab this new title of Executive Chef for the Ronald McDonald House Charities here in St. Louis, you spent 15 plus years doing pairings and dinners and things like that, all in support of Ronald McDonald House. This goes deep into your DNA and your heart. So can you tell us your Ronald McDonald House story? Matt (13:16): Sure. My wife and I discovered Ronald McDonald House kind of the hard way. We stayed at one and before our child was born, actually our second, we were adoptive parents Matt (13:25): And we were waiting the birth of our second son and the birth mother went through a false delivery. And so we were there in Florida to be with him and her upon his delivery. And she was discharged from the hospital after a few days without giving birth, still pregnant. And we had nowhere to go. This is in the Gulf Coast of Florida. And so we didn't know if we should come back to St. Louis or stay in Florida, stayed here because she could go back into labor at any time. We wanted to be closed, we wanted to be there for his birth. And so our social worker called us and we told him, said, what can we do? And she's like, I'll call you back in five minutes. Five minutes later she called back and she goes, I want you to drive over. We're into Tallahassee, Florida, and I have a room reserved a bed for you at the Ronald McDonough house in Tallahassee. And we didn't know anything about the Ronald McDonough house, heard of it, but we didn't know what it really was at the time. And from the time we walked into the front door to the time we walked to the receptionist desk, which was about six and a half feet, I mean, it changed my life. Matt (14:25): It just struck us. I mean the letters on the walls about the gratitude that the families have for the organization and seeing families with sick children at the house and stuff. And it struck Marybeth and I to our quarter immediately. And so we stayed for about a week and we were a very unique situation, which is Ronald McDonald House usually provides a place for people with sick children. Well, our child wasn't even born yet, so during, when most people are at the hospital with their sick children or at the house with their outpatient sick children, we didn't have a child with us. And so we spent all day cleaning and cooking and baking and doing landscaping and painting because we had nothing just helping out the costs. We had nothing to do. And so flash forward a few weeks, our son was born and seven weeks later we actually found him unconscious in his crib and my wife had to revive him till the paramedics arrived. Matt (15:20): And then subsequently, he spent a handful of weeks at Children's Hospital here in St. Louis. We were back in St. Louis at this time, and he had a rough go there for a few weeks. And we never left the hospital. My wife never left the hospital. I left a handful of times maybe, and literally for almost three weeks, she was there 24 hours a day. And so we utilized the family room, the Ronald McDonald House family room. We have a family room at Children's Hospital along with Glennon and two at Mercy Hospital in West County. And we utilized a family room quite a bit every day to take a shower, to eat a meal, to grab a snack, to go cry, whatever it was. Family came down and eat with us because you can't eat in a room with all the beeps and all that. There's no, when our son on Christmas Eve was discharged healthy, I waited until January 2nd and I literally called one 800, whatever the number was, and I said, my name's Matt, and how can I help? Wow. Then, so that was my son just turned 14 last week. Rick (16:16): That's fantastic. Matt (16:17): In good health, he's doing great. Sometimes I want to ring. Yeah, sometimes I want to. He's in eighth grade, but sometimes anything I want to ring his neck. Sometimes you don't condone Rick (16:26): That activity Matt (16:27): On the show. So I called Ron McDonna and I got involved and started donating my time and skills for their auctions to help raise money for their auctions. And then became an ambassador, our former CEO who passed away the summer. And I became friends Dan, Dan Harbo, and then he and I became friends and he lived in a neighborhood where my restaurant was. And then he asked me to start consulting on this new house. This has been going back to late 2019 actually. So he had asked me to consult on the design and just general consult what one thing led to another. So I got to design it and do all that and got involved and he's like, well, now I need a chef. And as you mentioned in the opening, I sold my restaurant for good reasons and that was it. So when it time came to get ready to open house, I own the building. I was on Hampton Avenue and I said, I'm not going to do both. And I'm given this charity 100% of my effort. And I sold my restaurant and took the position at Ronald McDonald House Charities. Rick (17:25): Wow. So there's a rumor going around that you actually accepted Dan's offer for the role before you even told your wife. Matt (17:33): There might be some truth to that. I think I did tell him absolutely without talking to my wife because I knew she would. It was a no brainer for us. And the charity means so much through the years we've been, like I said, long before I was an employee, we were always involved and going into the fundraisers and participating and donating and whatever, speaking on their behalf. And so Rick (17:56): For those listening in St. Louis, we're AB Maori North America. We have our offices boy just a couple blocks away from the new Ronald McDonald House build. And that's how we've gotten exposed and our teams are prepping to do more. We've been collecting some snacks and things like that for your team that finishes up actually this week, but we plan on going in to help support you. So here's the big opportunity. Tell us about this new build for people that may not know what St. Louis has been like for the Ronald McDonald House, trying to combine forces now into this premier building with the latest and greatest, and it's just the best way to provide care to the families and their kids. Matt (18:36): So as a whole, our organization provides a place for families with sick children to stay. When they're visiting St. Louis or any city where there's a Ronald McDonald house, it gives 'em a place to stay while their child seeks medical treatment. Our new facility, as you mentioned, is in the grove. It's a 72 room house, 74,000 square feet. We were able to raise every penny to open that house and build that house. So we were completely debt free. We had a capital campaign where we raised in excess of 34 million. And so St. Louis is a very extremely generous city, and it's because of partners like AB Maori and many others and individuals that were able to help us build this amazing facility. Rick (19:21): This place is really stunning. How is a website or if somebody wants to come by and find out more and get exposure and maybe even offer up their talents and time, can they do that? Matt (19:31): Absolutely. On our website at RMH ctl.org, there's many ways to get involved. In fact, at the very top of the page is a how to get involved tab. And there are many ways from volunteering for some of our special events that we have throughout the year, volunteering at our houses, I should say. We also have our second Ronald McDonald House, that's the property of Mercy Hospital in West County, and that has 20 rooms. So between the two houses in the city or in St. Louis, we can provide accommodations for 92 families. Wow, that's Rick (20:00): Fantastic. We appreciate the work. It's outstanding. Let's go back to food just real quickly because as we've walked around and you toured the facility with us and you were talking about the meal for that evening and the rest of the schedule of meals going on, you like to expose the families to new things, maybe things they've never tried beyond the quick, easy grab and go. You like to have themes and different styles? Matt (20:24): I do. Yeah. Rick (20:26): Why is that important? Matt (20:27): It goes back to that serving and education part, that giving part. I want people to experience things that I've been able to experience in my life through food. The families that stay with us may not have the experiences of dining out at nice restaurants all the time. They may not have had the opportunity to travel around the world to various cultures and see the cuisines of other cultures. And so I play my part to pass that along to our families. And sometimes they like it and sometimes they don't. And that's okay. Last week, for instance, I made falafel a ffel sandwich and I had think to explain most everyone what a waffle was, and some enjoyed it and some didn't, and that's okay. But I wanted them to experience something different. Tuesday nights are international nights, so I always do something different every Tuesday night. I mean, this coming Tuesday night, I'm doing Indian cuisine, so samosas and pine curry and tiki masala, stuff like that. And those are cuisine foods that maybe they don't always get to experience. Rick (21:28): I think it's great. Matt (21:28): Yeah, Rick (21:29): It's a good outreach. Matt (21:30): Last week, last Tuesday was Chinese night, so we just did cashew chicken and teriyaki chicken, fried rice, egg rolls, grand goon. Rick (21:37): Fantastic. Yeah. How about up and coming chefs out there? Do you have any sort of career advice or any kind of mantras or there are other maybe chefs or books or whatever that serve as an inspiration that you could pass it forward? Matt (21:52): Sure. So I mean, look to up and coming chefs. I mean, I didn't go to culinary school myself. Took some classes here and there, but I paid attention. I took notes, maybe not physical notes, but mental notes, and I paid attention and I gave it my a hundred percent at all times. And I feel like that's the most important thing when chef's speaking to you. Listen, we didn't have cell phones back then in our buzz in our pockets all time. But keep the phone down and pay attention to what's going on. Look at the details, clean up after yourself, have respect for what you're doing and where you're doing it at. I think those are the biggest things that I teach younger people. As far as my inspiration go, I mean, I think we all chefs love Anthony Bourdain, but that was a little bit, even my career got started before he was really around. Matt (22:38): So Charlie Trotter in Chicago was one of my biggest inspirations. His cuisine was fascinating and very intricate, which much more than I cook that way. But I think as his personality and stuff like that, it was something that who I admired. And then the next generation of the David Changs and the Anthony Bourdain's of the world. I mean, those were people who I wanted to emulate to some degree. I thought really, when it comes to Bourdain, I mean not just him cuisine, but lifestyle, right. Personality. Absolutely. That goes a long way. And I think we had some similar traits. Partied like a rockstar too when I was young, but put my head on straight and found success of my career. Rick (23:21): How about other chefs from other Ronald McDonald House builds? Do you interact? Is there any sort of community there that Matt (23:27): Sure there a little bit. Not too much. Unfortunately, we're all busy, but we do have some annual conferences that we go to. And I did get to travel to a couple of cities in the Midwest and on the eastern seaboard, and I've been in communication with their chefs from time to time if I needed to reach out and bend their ear and then we can do that via email or in person when I see 'em at conferences or something like that. Yeah. So that is available as a resource to me. But really with a new house here in St. Louis just kind of took my expertise, my skills and what I know and what I've learned. I was brought on to the organization as an employee, well in advance of the house opening, so I was able to get my feet wet too. Rick (24:04): Now obviously there was needs for the Ronald McDonald House year wide, but with the holidays coming, is there anything special or is there any kind of requests that you'd like to make? Like, wow, we need X, Y, and Z, or we need your time and attention when it comes March way after the holidays? Matt (24:19): Sure. Well, that's a good point. This time of year is the time of year when we do see the most of our giving. We have annual appeals or year end appeals that we're always looking to generate funds. We do have an Amazon wishlist that is out there on our website accessible or through our Facebook pages where people can constantly donate things that go to our family rooms or the houses. So keep in mind, not only do we have the two houses here in St. Louis, we also have the four family rooms located in the hospitals and those are constantly stocked with snacks and all that stuff. So yeah, we are a hundred percent of our budget is dependent upon donation. So there's many ways to get involved and to donate for sure. Rick (24:58): So we've talked a lot about food and what you do, your vocation, but what do you like to do when you're off the clock, which you never are, but are there things that your interests outside of this chef world Matt (25:11): There are? Yeah, sure. So of course, do I get to do them all the time? Maybe not as much, but my wife has been very good to me. And let me continue on with my season hockey tickets for the Blues. I am 26 years as a partial season ticket holder. Rick (25:24): Congratulations. Matt (25:25): So I do see my French air blues games. I have two younger brothers, and between the three of us, we're always going to the blues games. And in fact, we'll be going to the Winter Classic together Niceley Field here. Nice. It's fantastic. Nice Briley field here. Next one. I like the new sweaters. I thought they were pretty cool. I did. At first, I first saw em, I was like, eh. But then after looking at second or third time, I'm like, okay, I can do that. And then in the summer, my wife and I, we do love to sit outside on the back deck and enjoy a glass of wine and our yard and just being outside where we are, certainly outdoor people. We love to camp and hike and fantastic. We'd love to eat out when we can. Well Rick (26:02): Probably once in a while it's nice to have that kind of, you get served Matt (26:05): A little bit. Yeah, my wife's a nurse and so we both kind of have that servitude in us. Rick (26:10): And Matt (26:11): So it is nice to go out and get taken care of every now and again. Rick (26:13): Well, we appreciate what Matt and Mary Beth do for us in the community. Alright, so one final question. Any kind of like, boy, is there a slogan or maybe something somebody has said in the past that really sticks to with you that kind of is a little bit of your mantra? Matt (26:30): I don't know where I picked it up. I mean, it's the mantra that I've always abided by in my career was, if you can't have fun, go home. And I believe that I've been fortunate enough, I'm in a career. I enjoy going to work every day and have my current job, my last handful of jobs, even my own restaurant, I enjoyed going to work every day. And not everyone has that opportunity, right? There are people in the world that don't enjoy their work and you're Rick (26:58): Doing good. Matt (26:59): So I enjoy going to work every day, but I always live to that. And I told people even when I was teaching coloring school, if you can't have fun doing this, then go home. Why are you doing it? Then go find someplace. There's other careers out there, right? You don't have to learn how to be a cook, big chef. And if you are, then have fun doing it. Intro/Outro (27:16): Those are good words of wisdom. I can tell you that. I tell you what, chef Matt, it's been a pleasure having you on the program. Thanks for joining us. Of course. Thank you for what you do with Ronald McDonald House Charities here in St. Louis. And for now, switches off the oven. Light is off. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again soon. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Oven Light. Until next time, when we discuss more about the wonderful world of baking technology trends and more, the switch is officially off. Goodbye for now. See you next time.