Life Is So Sweet

Rick (00:04):

It takes a bit of a blend of art and science to get baking just right, and having extra eyes, ears, and hands can make a big difference along the way. That’s where AB Maury North America comes into play. We are the team behind industrial and artists and bakers that help optimize success. We’ll discuss more on this episode of The Oven Light. So let’s get going. Flip the switch. All right, everybody. Welcome back. The switch is on. The oven light is now on. Hi, I’m your host, Rick Olshack from AB Maury, North America. And today I’ve got a colleague, a fellow gentleman who we are eager to have back on the show. This is his second time, but we’re going to really focus on this gentleman throughout the program and welcome to Wes Snow. Hey, Wes.

Wes (00:54):

Hey, thanks, Rick. Pleasure to be here with you today.

Rick (00:56):

Awesome. Well, I tell you what, this guy has an impressive background. He is our technical sales director, and you’re like, “What does that mean?” Well, let me give you some of the nuts and bolts. Wes has been with AB Maury North America for more than 12 years, spent a little bit of a stint at Ventura Foods, seven years at the grocery train H-E-B in brand marketing for product management, and also adds to this a bachelor of science degree from Oregon State. Go beavers, right?

Wes (01:23):

That’s right.

Rick (01:25):

So what’s interesting is we talk a lot about K State, Kansas State and the bakery science program. They had a good run in the NCAA tournament this year, but Wes went to Oregon State and has a degree in nutrition, food, product development, and promotion. I mean, that’s a heck of a lot to do in four years. So Wes, tell me a little bit about, just right off the bat, we’re going to just talk college. Let’s talk about the course load and why you made that choice and how you got to where you are now.

Wes (01:52):

Yeah. Yeah. So out of high school, I moved down to New Orleans and cooked down there for a few years. And I could tell that that was not going to be a long-term deal for me. I needed to get back to a university setting. And I looked at various schools and I was interested in food development and all things food. So I looked at Penn State and University of Illinois. They all had good R&D departments, but Oregon State had a department that I thought was really interesting because it had a combination of food science and business and even some aspects of nutrition that created a very well-rounded R&D, I guess, learning experience. And so I went to Oregon State and really am pleased with the experience that I had.

Rick (02:31):

That’s awesome. But you mentioned New Orleans. I didn’t know all this. So were you kind of aspiring to be a chef and you’re cooking at Tufe and all those sorts of things?

Wes (02:39):

Yeah. At that time, I was going to Mississippi State actually in Starkville, Mississippi. That’s where I grew up. And I was cooking as my sort of college job and I really liked it and I liked it a lot more than I did going to school at that time. So I thought, well, if I’m going to do this right, I might as well move down to New Orleans. And that was in the early 90s. And so at that time, New Orleans was, I would say part of the big three, New York, San Francisco and New Orleans were the kind of culinary epicenters. And I’m sure people will be outraged in Chicago to hear me say that, but that’s my opinion. And I worked with the Brennan family at a restaurant there called Baco, which at that time was a really neat place. It was Esquire’s best new restaurant of the year.

(03:20):

And it was one of the top 10 Italian restaurants in the country at that point. So it was a great learning experience, worked with a lot of smart people. It was a lot of hard work. And after some amount of time, I thought, I’ve got to get to a job where one day I’ll be able to sit down a little bit.

Rick (03:33):

I think it’s pretty awesome. And I didn’t know that we kind of have this shared background of the SEC. I went to the University of Florida. Your Mississippi State Bulldog, so that’s pretty cool. But hey, I’m sure back in the day you had a few beignets, right? And we’re going to start shifting towards bakery, but Cafe de Mall, right?

Wes (03:48):

Yeah, that is one of my favorite places down there. And I can’t go there much anymore because they do load their beignets with eggs and they are delicious, but I guess we’ll touch on that a little bit later.

Rick (03:57):

We are. We’re going to talk a little bit about a vegan lifestyle and kind of a shift in eating patterns and things like that. So before we get into it, we got a couple things. I’m going to hit you real quick. We call them rapid fire. Let’s call it hot pan questions. Put you in the hot pan again. Now what was your first job coming out of high school? I mean, did you bag groceries? Did you work in a restaurant? Did you wash cars? What’d you do?

Wes (04:16):

Yeah, I worked at McDonald’s, believe it or not. So that was my first job in high school and I was the fry cook. They thought that was about the limits of my abilities at that time. So I was the fry cook at McDonald’s.

Rick (04:27):

So Wesley, tell me this, come on. It’s just between you and me and listeners out there. Why are the French fries so good at McDonald’s? I mean, they’ve really gotten it

Wes (04:35):

Down. Well, yeah. Well, there’s a lot of things that they do with starch and various things, but maybe what you’re alluding to is the beef flavor that was used. I don’t know if they still do that or not, but at one time they did had a beef flavoring to those fries, as far as I’ve heard. And those do have a different flavor than most other French fries.

Rick (04:51):

You know what’s interesting though, and you talk about McDonald’s, you talk about french fries and you talk … I came from Anheuser-Busch and people sometimes like to bash on the big guys because they’re like, “Oh, they’re so big.” But the thing that people always celebrate is the consistency of high quality, whether you’re getting a Budweiser in China or Europe or the US or you’re getting some fries in South America or in Canada or Ireland. You know what I mean? It’s amazing how McDonald’s does it very well.

Wes (05:20):

Yeah, they do. They do. Yep.

Rick (05:22):

All right, here we go. Let’s talk automobiles here, whether it’s your first car or maybe what’s your favorite car? This says a lot about a person if you’re like, “Boy, what kind of car would Wes be driving? Is he driving like a Subaru Brat with the extra seats in the back or is he driving a Jaguar convertible? What do you got? What do you like?

Wes (05:40):

” Well, my first car was not my favorite car. It was the 1982 Dotson 210 station wagon, but

Rick (05:48):

Hot stuff, man.

Wes (05:49):

Yeah, I had about 50 horsepower. But my favorite car, and I actually did buy one, was a 1971 Dotson 240Z. And that was a great car. I don’t have it anymore, unfortunately, but probably the coolest car I ever had.

Rick (06:03):

I’m sure maybe you and one of our key bakers, one of our technical reps, P Howald, is a huge Dotson 240 Z fan. I don’t know if

Wes (06:11):

You guys

Rick (06:11):

Ever compared notes, but pretty cool.

Wes (06:13):

Yeah, yeah.

Rick (06:14):

Awesome. All right. So let’s talk a little bitiness here. We’re going to talk a little business here talking about your expanded role. You picked up a new title, technical sales director right before the pandemic hit. I mean, what timing is that? But what has that role been like for you because you now have a very critical focus on sweet goods, right? And historically, AB Maori’s been focused a lot on bread buttons and rolls, but we’ve turned up the heat and you’re the guy turning up the heat.

Wes (06:39):

Yeah. Before this current role, I was a technical sales manager on the Bread and Bund side, and I did enjoy that very much. I liked it, but we did purchase a blending facility in Cedar Rapids a few years ago and they needed someone to sort of, I guess, coordinate some of these efforts. I guess I’m the guy. I’ve liked it very much. It’s been a new category of products, a lot of learnings. I’m certainly not an expert across the board on that, but I do work with some people who are, and that’s important. So I’ve got a great group of technical sales managers. We’ve got a great R&D team in our Cortex lab in St. Louis. So that’s been great. We’ve also got a whole new customer base that we haven’t dealt with in the past. So that’s been a lot of fun too. So a lot of learning and growth.

Rick (07:20):

Yeah, you’re shepherding a lot of new things, whether it’s people from different parts of the globe to new product categories that we’re dealing with and now new customers. So all right, let’s do a quick shift here. We’re going to talk, we kind of teased a little bit, and I know we’ve talked a little bit in the past about your vegan lifestyle. Tell us more. I mean, because you’re hearing more and more about it, or at least I know I am and I’m sure some of our listeners are. How did you get into it? How do you find the right kind of foods? Where do you get the information to say, “I’m going to do this and this is why I’m doing it. “

Wes (07:51):

Well, it’s kind of funny to look back at it because if you had known me before, I would’ve been the last person who would’ve ever said I was going to go vegan. I went to the doctor and they said my cholesterol was high and it’d been high for a while, but I was doing all the right things. I thought I was eating lean chicken and fish and exercising and all those things. And it just didn’t seem to move the needle. I thought they were going to put me on medication and I thought, “Well, let me try to cut out some of these foods and add some different foods and see if it helps.” And it did. My cholesterol fell to about 140 and I feel great, felt great right away. I mean, even within the first month, I had a lot more energy. And if you talk to anybody who does this, that’s the first thing they’ll tell you is how good they feel.

(08:34):

So I thought, well, I’ll just keep going with it. And I wasn’t sure if I was going to die from some nutrient deficiency, but I kept living and it’s been seven years now.

Rick (08:43):

That’s incredible. So let me ask you this. How about within your family? Does anybody else pick that up?

Wes (08:47):

Yeah. So my wife, she eats plant-based as well. I mean, she likes it, but the kids eat kind of whatever they want. We try to give them as healthy products as we can, but kids are a little difficult when it comes to that, but we don’t force it on anybody. All

Rick (08:59):

Right. So let me ask you this. If you had two or three products out there or types of meals that are your favorite, what are they?

Wes (09:06):

Definitely rice and beans. I try to eat beans every day. There’s resistant starch within beans and they’re just really good for you across a number of different issues. I try to eat leafy greens and we eat nuts and things like that for snacks, but fruit, smoothies and that. But we pretty simplistic. We eat a lot of the same things every day. We try to mix it up here and there, but maybe a somewhat boring diet compared to most people.

Rick (09:30):

Hey, it’s all about choices and feeling good and certainly you’re seeing the benefits. So congrats on that. Let’s shift back to bakery a little bit. So what are you keeping your eye on? We talked about sweet goods and it covers a lot of ground. It covers donuts and cake. It could be a cream cake, could be brownies or cookies or even into Danish and things. So what’s not necessarily keeping you up at night, but what’s getting you motivated during the day?

Wes (09:53):

Well, it is kind of an interesting time to be in this market because there’s so many, many changes going on. And some of these are trends that are on purpose and some of these are reactions to things that are happening in the industry. But AB Maori is within the food industry, a technology company. So we focus a lot on enzymes and we focus on solutions. And these are things that will cut costs or increase profitability for our customers. And so we’re doing a lot of work in combining enzymatic solutions with bakery mixes so that the products that we’re making are differentiated in performance, cost reduction and quality. And so I can elaborate on any of these more if you’d like, but that’s kind of the direction that we’re coming for. We don’t want to put out commodity blends, but we do want to put out something that’s differentiated and special.

Rick (10:38):

You hit on the thing that a lot of people have been talking about. Certainly it’s not just the US globally, people have had inflationary pressures. We know the supply chain has had its challenges and therefore kind of increased costs. How important is it right now to have those conversations with bakers where you’re trying to save them some pennies and nickels and you can’t always compare a product to a product to a product where you get into a deeper discussion about cost and use. Why is this whole cost and use lens, if you will, really important as part of your discussion?

Wes (11:08):

Right. Well, cost and use is important because if you look at a solution, especially an enzymatic solution that’s sold by the pound and you look at that price per pound, you don’t see the whole picture. There’s different usage rates that are employed, but what we’re doing is, and I’ll give you an example. We have an egg replacer that we’ll be launching very soon. It is certainly more expensive than liquid egg, but it’s a dry product and it will reduce the usage of liquid egg by about 50%. And so we think that these bakers will appreciate that, but performance is especially good. We have had egg reducers in years past, but this one is a very high quality product and one that we think it’s the right time for it.

Rick (11:45):

Well, you talked about liquid egg versus a dry egg. I guess are there handling considerations here when it comes to dealing with liquid eggs versus something that’s a dry powder?

Wes (11:54):

Liquid egg obviously takes refrigeration and there’s costs with transportation. Of course, freight’s been increasing over time. And within the bakery, there’s only so many square feet that we have for refrigeration. So if we can reduce the amount of liquid egg by having a dry product like we do, we think that that’s a positive. Again, it’s not a 100% elimination of egg. We may get to that at some point. We’re not there today because we want to make sure that we keep quality, but every little bit helps when it comes to keeping trucks off the road and minimizing pallet positions within the warehouse. All

Rick (12:22):

Right. So we talked about egg. Let’s throw eggs aside because now we can get back into your sweet spot of, literally your sweet spot of vegan. One of our colleagues created this really good. I’m telling you, I tasted it at our sales meeting, a new vegan cake recipe. And I was kind of like blown away. I thought it was outstanding. And you have things kind of built up in your head. Why was that stuff so good? What made that recipe so outstanding?

Wes (12:44):

When they told me that they had a vegan cake, I thought, okay, well, I’ve had some of these in the past. I’m not really excited to try it. But I was really surprised. It had good volume, it had good mouth feel, a very mild and sort of neutral flavor and was very close to egg. Now, how are we getting that? There’s a combination of factors from enzymes to emulsifiers that are giving us that outcome. This was developed by our GBI team in the Netherlands. This is our fundamental research group that does all of our really exciting research work. They’ve got something that’s very unique. I’ve sampled this with a number of customers and everyone has liked it very much. So I think this is an exciting step forward for us. This same vegan cake mix can also be used for brownies and cookies and various other vegan baked products.

Rick (13:32):

That’s awesome. And Wes kind of mentioned about GBI. What that means is global bakery ingredients. We use a lot of acronyms like a lot of folks in the business, so just opening that up a little bit. So that’s great. So I appreciate the insight a little bit more into that specific product. All right, we’re going to go to a couple hot pan questions again, favorite book or favorite author?

Wes (13:52):

I’m reading a book called Prompto right now by Elmore Leonard, who I’ve been reading recently. He wrote Jackie Brown and he wrote the series Justified that’s on TV. He’s a really exciting writer. I’m not going to say he’s my favorite, but he’s top of mind right now.

Rick (14:08):

Okay, that’s a good one. How about favorite pastime? What do you do when you are not out there talking about bakery ingredients or what do you like to do in your spare time?

Wes (14:17):

I live in Boise. So when the weather is right, I like to go snowshoeing up in the mountains here. That’s a great exercise, gives you good peace of mind. And if I could do that every day, I would.

Rick (14:27):

Well, let me ask you about snowshoes because I’m a guy who’s from Florida. I live in St. Louis, but I’ve been on a snowmobile. I’ve gone dog sledding, but I’ve never done snowshoeing. Has the technology and snowshoes changed over the last hundred years?

Wes (14:40):

Yeah, I’d say over the last hundred years. So yeah, I mean, there’s all kinds of holes that you can use and there’s different grips that allow you to climb hills easily. And the great thing about snowshoeing is, is that the environment is cold, your body is working hard, but you don’t overheat. And so you can really get a good workout.

Rick (14:58):

Is it kind of like a cross-country skiing kind of thing in

Wes (15:00):

A way? It’s cross-country skiing for people who aren’t very coordinated.

Rick (15:04):

Oh, that’s perfect for me then I’ll take it. And with the new Nike air movie coming out, are there Nike air snowshoes? I mean, maybe there’s an untapped market here for our friends in Oregon.

Wes (15:14):

I don’t know. I haven’t seen anything quite like that yet.

Rick (15:17):

That would be pretty cool. All right. Last one. What’s your favorite baked good now? Okay, let’s do it before your vegan lifestyle and now after that you’ve gone through this kind of lifestyle change. Well,

Wes (15:27):

It’s funny you mentioned because a beignet probably is my favorite. Cafe Dumont does not have a vegan beignet, but there are some recipes out there that are really quite good. So I think I’d have to stay with that.

Rick (15:38):

Okay. Well, that’s pretty good. So Wes, you kind of got a really interesting job at a really interesting time where the company is focusing a lot more on the sweet bakery goods area. And part of your job is to rally people from around the globe, manage, as you mentioned, global bakery ingredients, like people that work with them and how do you get them to coordinate with people in the US and Canada? How kind of rewarding is that to bring this Olympic spirit to life in kind of a business sense? Yeah,

Wes (16:07):

It is really interesting. As mentioned, GBI, they’re made up of a number of scientists from around Europe and around the world. And when you talk to these folks, you do get really good perspective and very different perspectives from what you might have here in North America. But what’s helpful is that we’ve got sales and manufacturing divisions around the world. And so if I need a mochi donut recipe or a Penetone recipe, I can get that. And I can get that from our company because we’ve got experts around the world and they’ve got local presence, but they can share globally.

Rick (16:39):

So I know you’ve been working, you and the team have been working a little bit on maybe some Latino focused baked goods because there are definitely some celebratory items, whether it’s the three milk cake and things like that. How fun has that been to be working on some of those items? Yeah,

Wes (16:53):

That’s a great question. Those have been, we’ve gotten really good feedback on those. We’ve got three new products. We’ve got the Tresletches mix, we’ve got the manticotta mix, and then we’ve also got the biscocho. And with all of these, we tried to take them to the next level. We tried to maintain the authenticity, but to add various attributes that we think the baker and that ultimately the consumer would enjoy. So the tres leches is made to absorb all of the milk and yet not crack or become brittle. The biscocho, again, stays soft over time and has a very good resiliency and volume. But we’ve put a lot of focus into these. We don’t know if the industry has focused on them much over the years, but we’ve gotten a very good response.

Rick (17:31):

That’s awesome. So let me ask you this too. You mentioned enzymes a lot earlier, and certainly AB Maori has been one of the leaders in that sort of bakery ingredient category. For maybe somebody who’s listening in, or it could be a smaller bakery or somebody who hasn’t really put their foot on the pedal as it relates to enzymes. What do they really do? Why is it so important? How can you improve your product by using them?

Wes (17:54):

Well, there’s so many different types of enzymes. One common one that the industry uses is what we would call an ESL or an extended shelf life targeted enzyme. These are used across the board from bread and buns to donuts and situations and cakes and widely used. The industry is always evolving. There’s always ways to improve your product’s shelf life without seeing degradation towards the end of the shelf life. It’s a great way to improve the product without adding various chemicals and whatnot. Enzymes are clean label. And so we can soften products, we can give them volume, we can give them different handling characteristics in manufacturing. So they really are a great toolbox to

Rick (18:35):

Use. Awesome. I appreciate the little education there. That’s good for folks that are tuning in. On this episode, again, you’re listening to The Oven Light, and we’re always open. If you’re listening in and you’ve got a question or if you have a great comment or have an idea for a future program or a theme, you can always send a note to us, an email to the ovenlight@abaury.com, and we’d be happy to respond to you. If you’ve got a question for Wes, particularly on this episode, we’re happy to get back to you. So I appreciate that. So Wes, as we kind of start to wrap up the program, what’s next for the sweet goods team? What’s next for you? We talked about some of the new products that you’ve got out there, but are there other areas outside of donut or cakes that maybe you’ve got your eye on that maybe in the past we haven’t really focused on?

Wes (19:20):

Well, I think that our customers throughout the industry have really been struggling with cost input increases. And so what we’re trying to do is find ways to lower those. So for instance, we have a new system now that reduces oil pickup and used raised donuts by 25 to 30% with no difference to quality or eating experience. So we’re very excited about that. We’ve got a number of other things going on that we think the industry will be excited about. And I may share those with you again at some point as we get a little closer.

Rick (19:47):

All right, Wes, I got to ask this because you’re a stud, and I’m wondering, have you ever had a radio show or ever been on media in some form or fashion?

Wes (19:57):

No, but I have listened to one.

Rick (19:59):

Oh, I’m not a doctor, but I played one on TV. No, I’m just like, I mean, you’re excellent. And I tell you what, you could probably host your own podcast if you really wanted to, but we’d love to have you back at some point. And I guess before we go, anything heavy on the heart or anything you’re like, “Boy, there’s something really cool. I just got to make sure that people know about it. ” Say it from the hilltop. Is there anything out there that, whether it’s food related, bakery related, anything going on in the industry that is pertinent?

Wes (20:25):

Well, I guess the one thing is everything is constantly changing and we’ve got to move quick to stay on top of that. I was just reading an interesting article today about robotics and farming and food manufacturing and how important that’s going to be. And I don’t know much about robots, but I guess I’ll be working with them at some point. So over time, I think there’s going to be more usage of plant-based ingredients. And I do think that my personal feeling is that the industry is going to move to view food as more of a source of medicine and fuel. I don’t know that food has always looked at it in the healthiest of ways over the years. And I think that’s going to be something to look at as a real true use of food and what it’s supposed to be, which is to give you fuel and to keep you healthy.

(21:08):

So the products that I work with today don’t always do that, but we’re hoping that over time, maybe we can move in that direction.

Rick (21:15):

Well, that’s a great way to finish, Wes. Appreciate that. A little bit of an inspiration as we look to the future and healthier beings and healthier food choices. So Wes, I have to say thank you for joining the program today.

Wes (21:26):

Well, thank you. It was great talking with you, Rick.

Rick (21:29):

So for all the listeners out there, we appreciate you tuning in to The Oven Light. And for now, the switch is off. We’ll see you next time on the program. We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Oven Light. Until next time when we discuss more about the wonderful world of baking technology, trends and more, the switch is officially off. Goodbye for now. See you next time.