The Baking Industry
Dell-ivers Again

Intro/Outro (00:04):

It takes a bit of a blend of art and science to get baking just right and having extra eyes, ears, and hands can make a big difference along the way. That’s where AB Maori, north America comes into play. We are the team behind industrial and artisan bakers that help optimize success. We’ll discuss more on this episode of the oven light. So let’s get going. Flip the switch.

Rick (00:31):

Welcome back everybody to the oven light and for now the switch is back on. We’re ready to go. So today we’ve got a great guest and we’re talking all baking all the time Today. He is the new president and CEO and I guess new if you talk about 10 months into the gig. Prior to joining the baking industry, spent 10 years at the National Automatic Merchandising Association, which by the way, I bought something out of a vending machine today, so hopefully Oh good. This gentleman will like that. So that industry is behind vending and convenience. Also served as chief of staff for Congressman Joe Wilson. Throw in a decade of legal experience some degrees from the University of South Carolina and an MBA from Johns Hopkins. Welcome Eric Dell.

Eric (01:18):

Great to be here, Rick. I appreciate it and I appreciate all that AB Maori does with AB, a and for the industry and it’s just been great learning more about the industry over the past 10 months and I feel like, as you said, new but my gosh, 10 months has flown by like a day.

Rick (01:34):

It’s unbelievable. I’ve seen, if I looked at one of those airplane grids that show all the flights around the US I think you’re on at least four of ’em at the same time. It is been pretty amazing. It’s been

Eric (01:46):

Really educational.

Rick (01:47):

Yeah. Well we’re happy to have it on the program. So let’s start fast here, right. How does a lawyer, I call you a legal eagle, find your way into the baking industry, and why did ABA, the American Bakers Association make sense for you?

Eric (02:01):

Absolutely. Well, I practiced law for a few years on the real estate. Really did commercial and residential real estate mainly when I practiced law and practiced law with Congressman Joe Wilson before he was in Congress. The legal career led me to work with him and to run his campaign for congress. Came to DC then really started once I left the hill after nine years of managing his congressional office from the second district of South Carolina where I’m originally from. Worked for nama, which is not the Miller’s Association, but as you said, we represented the vending industry, the office, coffee service industry, catering folks, those kind of businesses. They were a lot family owned, much like the baking industry. So did that for approximately 10 years and then this came along and just seemed like really a good fit and I had already been working, partnering with the ABA in terms of legislative and regulatory issues related to food and beverage. So had a good connection in with a lot of the folks that were at ABA already with working and partnering together on those kind of issues, similar issues. And we even had overlap of members flowers and barcel, which has been owned, was a member at nama. So not only did I know the membership, some of the membership obviously knew the legislative and advocacy issues and had worked partnered with EBA. Good

Rick (03:30):

Deal. Well we’re excited to have you a part of the industry. So lemme say this, you’ve got almost a year in, so what are the priorities? I mean, you’ve seen a lot already. You’ve been within the us I know you’ve traveled overseas. We’re going to talk about the recent show that you spent some time at. But initially what are you seeing that you’re gauging and saying this is what the bakers in the US need to really focus on?

Eric (03:52):

Yeah, so I think first of all, I would say a couple of things that I recognized immediately after a few visits were just the long tenure of people who work in the industry. Family owned businesses, as I said, a lot of them, but really the employees at these bakeries and the equipment and ingredient suppliers and in millers the employees stay around, they make a career out of the industry and it’s really nice because not only are they around a long time, but that means that they know the industry really well. So I like that fact. I immediately picked up on that very family oriented, but don’t let that be deceiving. The folks in this industry are really smart and they’re good at what they do and I picked that up really quickly as well.

Rick (04:39):

Got you. Okay. So you’re just getting back from the big show in Germany, it’s called iba, we’ve got the US show called IBIE and I know you know enough about that one as well. What did you see in Europe recently when you’re in Munich that maybe excites you about the industry? Or do you see anything different whether it’s manufacturers or ingredients or end products?

Eric (05:00):

Yeah, I think it was really interesting, obviously being my first baking show being the largest, a good way to start, I guess I was able to see just so many different equipment manufacturers and exhibitors and the entire supply chain represented all the way from the beginning to the end. And we had a lot of our members there as well. I think what stood out to me was, I know it’s Europe, so there are a little more on the front foot on sustainability, but eba, it really made a focus to talk about sustainability. In almost every booth you went to, you saw how they were talking about sustainability and whether it be an ingredient supplier or an equipment manufacturer, like how their products are helping the movement in the sustainability area. And that’s one of the focuses that I think our industry has done a lot on, but we just don’t talk about it. I came into the job thinking, gosh, we’ve got to really focus on some of these forward-leaning areas for the next consumer to help the category grow and remain strong into the future. The truth is the bakers and the entire supply chain, they’re doing great things in the sustainability front. We’re just not telling the story.

Rick (06:17):

A lot of companies don’t want to be boastful or too far out there, but the environment is if you don’t talk about what you’re doing, people expect that or anticipate that you’re doing nothing. That’s

Eric (06:31):

Right. That’s right. And you have, to your point, you can’t greenwash, you can’t state more than what you’re doing. But at the same time, I think bakers, and this goes to your point about not being boastful, I think they’re just good. They seem to be good hardworking people who are focused on their job and focused on feeding America and feeding the world. And sometimes you don’t think about telling your story when you’re doing that. So what we’ll be doing at ADA, and you’ll see more of it is we’re going to be telling that story of not only sustainability, but what is the industry doing about giving back just in general to their communities. I’ve been to so many events where our industry is giving back to their community in so many different ways, be it time, talent or treasure, and no one tells that story. I think it’s important that we tell that story

Rick (07:22):

Time to get a little credit for it, right? Yeah,

Eric (07:24):

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Rick (07:26):

Okay, so you’ve got this long history in the legal side, government affairs, legal counsel, even some stumping and campaigning, international observation. I was reading up on you a little bit. So you look back at your career, what are maybe some of your top highlights or favorite highlights from your legal career and how do maybe some of those things fit into what you’re doing to the ABA?

Eric (07:50):

Yes. I think the legal and congressional career background as well as association fits right into AB, A, but specifically the legal and congressional. I was able to, you talked about election observer in some foreign countries, international countries and so forth. The international travel I was able to do when I worked in Congress and learn about the world really came to my mind when I was at IBA recently because we were meeting with delegations for Taiwan, from India, from Japan, from Mexico, from Brazil, all over the globe. And I was able to think about a lot of these places I had been and kind of connect and be able to talk with them about having visited those countries in those parts of the world. So that’s just very valuable, having that background. I also think that the legislative role and the legislative history of the legal background helps as well on that front with having worked in Congress and knowing the process and knowing some of the players on the hill and knowing how that process works is half the battle.

Rick (08:58):

I think that we go back to that Disney song, right? It’s a small world right? There is something that applies there

Eric (09:05):

It is. And everyone in DC knows that it’s just a small world in DC too.

Rick (09:11):

Alright, so let’s lighten things up a little bit all the time to exhale here. We’re going to go with what we call ’em our hot pan questions and nothing too crazy, but the first one right out of the bat, favorite kind of bread, white bread, wheat bread, bun roll or something else.

Eric (09:26):

So I’m going to throw something in here. I’m going to have a couple of different ones, but I’m going to say rye. Okay. How about that if you’re throwing,

Rick (09:34):

Yeah, I like it.

Eric (09:35):

Are we dairy gra?

Rick (09:38):

So is there a certain bakery or maybe a certain, I know you don’t want to get into brands and stuff. You could even just say a location like I was in Brooklyn and I found this place. Do you have any kind of memories like that? Is there something maybe within your family growing up and somebody was baking in your family?

Eric (09:58):

Well, I am trying to think of any without, we don’t, as my old boss used to say, don’t pick amongst your children of your members of the association.

Rick (10:08):

Yes, I understand that.

Eric (10:10):

So I won’t pick a brand, but I will say that I grew up in the south and just those areas and regions have a lot of different biscuits. They have more biscuits than other items that you might see breakfast items. So biscuits as well from the southern region are just great.

Rick (10:26):

I love it. Throw a little cornbread in there too and we’re pretty happy. Alright, here’s the second one. This one, I don’t know, it might get both of us in trouble, at least with the avocado folks. Does avocado belong on toast?

Eric (10:37):

It might belong on toast, but not my toast. Oh

Rick (10:42):

Boy. I tell, do we have a politician on today’s show or

Eric (10:44):

What? So I am not a avocado fan just on toast. Just

Rick (10:50):

Not my thing. Here’s our last one of the initial round here. Favorite vending machine food item, right? I mean you lived this for a long time. So give us a scoop. What do you go up and you got to push a three or D seven, what are you getting?

Eric (11:08):

Yeah, so I would say my two favorite, I could say categories would be either chocolate or baked goods. So I would traditionally go to the baked good, not just because I work at ADA, but either the donuts or honey bun.

Rick (11:24):

Okay. You like the big Texas size honey bun that comes out that big Texas. I mean there’s that sound when it kind of comes through. It’s like it drops and

Eric (11:33):

You’re the big, Texas is a huge seller in Vening.

Rick (11:37):

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Alright, good to know that a little bit. So, alright, so we’re talking about vending machines. Let’s just kind of move into the next one. But I think it highlights the appeal of convenience foods, but also how this day and age you want people to feel like they’re getting that’s healthier, maybe even more sustainable. You mentioned honey buns and it’s perfect. Handheld pies have been in there a long time. So how do you feel about having healthier items available in this kind of vending machine convenience format?

Eric (12:08):

So this is one of the areas actually, and I don’t know if you know this, but I worked on this in the vending space with my former boss. It’s a commitment with the partnership with PHA partnership for a healthier alliance. That was a commitment that we made and we got some of the major vending machine operator companies to commit to increase the percentage of better for you items in the vending machine over a period of three years. So I think we were like 24% of the offerings were considered better for you and we were trying to drive them over three to five years. I can’t remember the time period to get it to 33% of the offerings. Obviously you can’t force folks to buy things, but if you can give more options, it’s all about options and choice and people should have options for those joys in life of those times when they want a candy bar or an item that might be a baked good, a sweet baked good. Those are important and we should have those as options.

Rick (13:03):

Well, staying on that health strain, I went back and I read an article that you wrote about soda taxes and how those could, we’ve all seen those taxing large soft drinks and such and what kind of burden that would bring on actually the refreshment industry, which was a totally different thought process because the thought, everybody’s like, hey, you want to be healthy and all that, but there is potentially a burden on the people who are trying to make things go. So maybe that article that you penned, how does that relate to your thinking and actions moving forward too? Well

Eric (13:39):

I think it’s totally consistent. It’s just we can’t target certain foods and consider them good or bad by taxation because then it labels them as a good or bad to the public and to the consumer is, hey, we’re going to tax this item because it’s bad for you, or something like that. So selected taxes on food items, I don’t think it’s ever a good idea. We fought this in the state of Kansas as well when I worked at NAM and they were trying to do a tax, I can’t remember the exact specifics, but it was basically a tax on sweet goods or either some sort of snacks. And then California continually has some sort of snack tax that they would be working on as well. So we fought those. It’s, it’s not a good idea to tax food based on what people think is good or bad for you.

Rick (14:21):

Alright, so we’re taking a quick sidebar and it is my time to give a little bit of plug for the oven light, right? Alright, we’re about two dozen episodes into the program since we started. We recently were awarded five different awards, two from the Signal Awards, which is in its second year of podcasting national awards here in the us. Also three from W three that recognizes different excellence in podcasting from programming our topics like technology, food and beverage, and then even editing. So thanks to the at LP Creative here in St. Louis for making the oven light a big success. So I just got to put that plug in for ourselves, Eric. That is right. You got to

Eric (14:59):

Stop. Well that says a lot for what you’re doing at ABM R in the whole team and how they’re focused on marketing and really getting the message out.

Rick (15:07):

That’s

Eric (15:07):

What we’re in different ways. In different ways.

Rick (15:10):

So anybody listening in today, if you’ve got questions for Eric or me again, you can always send a note to our inbox. We’ve got the oven light@abmurray.com and if you send a note to Eric, you’ve got a question, we’ll make sure he gets it. We’ll even send you a little swag item compliments of Ab Murray, but we have a little bit of fun. Alright, so let’s jump back into a couple hot pan questions here a couple more. So how in the heck did you make your way to the University of South Carolina? We’re not talking southern cow, we’re talking South Carolina and I’m a gator, so we’re going to get along at least because we’re in the SEC, we all just

Eric (15:41):

Beat us a couple weeks ago.

Rick (15:43):

Oh man. I wish we could win more like that, but that was something to score a couple of touchdowns in the last five or 10 minutes. But yeah, I mean I love the Gamecocks and we’re going to talk a couple other questions, but how’d you make your way? Was it I grew up here and this is what I’m doing or what?

Eric (15:59):

Yeah, so I will say it is the USC to the folks who went there, the University of South Carolina, like the Ohio State. Right. So I grew up in the low country of South Carolina, right outside of Hilton Head Island, if you know where that is.

Rick (16:15):

That sounds horrible. That sounds like a horrible upbringing outside. Really

Eric (16:19):

Tough. I know. Tough, tough upbringing, but it was more on the country side. It was not right on the beach. Probably 30 miles outside of Hilton Head Island near Savannah, Georgia, right down in that area and grew up in that area and then made my way up after high school to Columbia to University of South Carolina. Stayed there undergrad law school and the Columbia area is very nice if you’ve ever been there. It’s a lot of fun. It’s a fun university. There are a lot of folks actually in the industry who have children now that are going there, who are talking to me about their children are going there. They’re excited. So it’s a growing school and it’s a great school.

Rick (16:53):

Fantastic. Alright. And it

Eric (16:54):

Was far enough from home. It was far enough from home where I could be away from home, but not yet. Two an two hours or so.

Rick (16:59):

I understand. Yeah, I grew up in central Florida and going to Gainesville was a great opportunity. Of course, we probably had the shared love for the head ball coach, right. Steve Spur. We spent some time after Florida at South Carolina. So you’ve got a few choices here, a few doors to enter. There’s Tana Hills’ Group therapy, the Loose Cock boots, or maybe some other bar outside Williams, Brice Stadium in Columbia. Where are you walking into?

Eric (17:23):

I am probably going to go to the Kaaboo because it’s right at the edge of the stadium. And folks who aren’t familiar with these Kaaboo, I’m assuming you’re familiar, Rick. I

Rick (17:35):

Read up on it, but I’ve never been there for a game.

Eric (17:38):

We’ll

Rick (17:38):

Have to plan

Eric (17:38):

That. They’re train cars, they’re Cabos from actual trains that they made into these. They put chandeliers in them and they’re completely decked out and you can actually watch the game from inside the cockapoo and folks buy these and lease ’em out and so

Rick (17:54):

Forth. That’s pretty awesome. Yeah, I love that idea. That’s fantastic. Don’t

Eric (17:57):

Be the cock

Rick (17:58):

Kaboose. Alright. Alright. Favorite college sports moments since I try to weave in a little bit of sports when we have one of those favorite college memories from your extended stay there?

Eric (18:09):

Yeah, I don’t know if this is a favorite, but it’s what I always remember was when I went to the University of Tennessee for a game. If you haven’t been to that stadium, it’s unbelievable. And it just goes straight up. I feel like the seats just go straight up into the air and not much of an angle. So I don’t understand how people stand up there and just don’t fall over and everyone falls over. But Peyton Manning was the quarterback when I was there, so I remember that. It’s one of my memories of going to a football game and a sports memory there.

Rick (18:37):

Well, I’ll say this, I enjoy listening and watching Peyton and Eli on Monday nights. They do Monday night football, and I’m also proud to say that in his four attempts to beat the Gators, he was oh, for four. Now I also lose the part about T Martin winning the national championship the next year and beating the Gators. But hey

Eric (18:58):

I Your memories.

Rick (18:59):

Yeah, I was. No, I mean he was such a classy guy. Not only in college but also pros and afterwards. Alright, so I got a couple other things that just kind of new, looking at things about ABA, this is a chance to talk about things. It’s November, it’s National Bread Month. What are you guys doing about it?

Eric (19:15):

Well, we’re celebrating, we’re pushing it out on social media. We’re actually going to be talking about it on Capitol Hill. We’ve got our fly fly-in coming up. We’ve got nearly a hundred people who are going to be at our fly-in at our policy conference that we’re doing in conjunction with ASB and RBA. So it’s one of those, this is the first time ever. Then I think we’ve joined all the Baker groups together to go to Capitol Hill and talk to Congress about the industry. So we’ll be talking about that. We’ll be talking about policy issues that are important to the industry around taxation and forming a banking caucus in Congress to help educate Congress and their staff on the banking industry. So it’s going to be a lot of fun.

Rick (19:55):

So you talked about next Jen Baker and that virtual series, and then you’ve got the annual convention coming up in April of 2024, right? Where’s that going to be? What’s the scoop on that?

Eric (20:04):

That’s going to be in Scottsdale in Arizona. It’s going to be great and we’re looking forward to it. In fact, I was on the phone earlier today with the staff going through some of the details, starting already to go set some of those details in place. We have the agenda put in place. We’ll be opening registration very soon. Really excited about that. That’ll be our second one. We’re really trying to enhance and keep growing that thought leadership and the value proposition from that event.

Rick (20:31):

That’s great. That’s great. And then speaking of thought leadership, I enjoy the podcast world now with the oven light, but you guys have your own big to the future. We do. I know you’ve got some great things coming up soon where you’re giving back a little bit of helping some underserved communities and that anything you’d like to add about the podcast in your forum for that?

Eric (20:53):

Well, I would just say I’ve enjoyed the podcast. I think it’s our listening audience has grown. The most recent one we did was a lot of fun for me with an old friend of mine, Craig Purser, who is the CEO of the National Beer Wholesalers, and we were able to talk about the connection between beer and beer and bread, which is awesome, and just to have a little bit of fun, but also talk about important issues around labor and workforce and helping solve some of those issues, which is the number one issue that I keep hearing over and over and over again.

Rick (21:21):

Well, what I see, again, we’re going to have to share a beer and talk a little more about that. I’ve spent 13 years in the beer industry, so when you’re talking about wholesalers, I love them. They make things go, oh, that’s wonderful. It’s quite an environment for sure. But I tell you what, Eric, we’ve had a lot of fun having you on the program. I just want to say thank you to you and your team at ABA for making things happen on behalf of the industry, we say welcome aboard and go get ’em. And for now, the switches off the oven, light is off. And we appreciate everybody listening and we’ll see you next time.

Intro/Outro (21:56):

We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Oven Light. Until next time, when we discuss more about the wonderful world of baking technology trends and more, the switch is officially off. Goodbye for now. See you next time.