It’s A ‘Gude’ Time To Be A Baker

Rick (00:04):

It takes a bit of a blend of art and science to get baking just right and having extra eyes, ears, and hands can make a big difference along the way. That’s where A. B. Maury North America comes into play. We are the team behind industrial and artists and bakers that help optimize success. We’ll discuss more on this episode of The Oven Light. So let’s get going. Flip the switch. Hello, everybody. Let’s turn the switch on. We’re back at it. So today we’ve got a new guest on the show, a rookie visitor, if you will, lifelong player in the baking industry in the United States. Been with Saucelin Publishing 40 plus years. I don’t know. It must have been Child Labor Laws or something because he started working at an early age. So Sausen’s in Kansas City. He’s currently the group publisher for Milling and Baking News, Food Business News, Baking and Snack.

(00:59):

Mike, Guti, welcome to The Oven Light.

Mike (01:01):

Hey, thanks a lot. It’s great to be here. I have been a longtime listener. I guess long time would mean the last couple years you’ve been doing this and always enjoy them. So hopefully there’ll be something here from me.

Rick (01:13):

There’ll be plenty. Mike, we enjoy catching up and talking about baking and talking about sports and all those things. Now we’re just making it official on the oven light. So hey, you’ve been around the block a little bit. We just finished up the NCA tournament. Turned back to your alma mater, Mizzou, University of Missouri, Columbia. You went to J School. Let’s go back to that. Tell me about maybe how things have changed or what’s gone on. I mean, you set out to be in the journalism field and you done did it, if you

Mike (01:39):

Will. By the way, I’m one of the few in my J school class that are still involved in the business. And I would say one of the very, very few that are in trade publishing still. But that’s great for me and totally enjoyed my time there. But you were asking me the other day, what are the biggest changes from my J school days to now? And I mean, that’s easy. I mean, it’s the move to digital in every aspect of our lives. And it’s relatively recent, but think about it. I wrote stories on a typewriter and turned in pieces of paper in my News 101 class at the University of Missouri. We were obviously very print-centric at the time, and that was just a mere 40 years ago. So it’s changed dramatically. And obviously we’re consuming the preponderance of our news online now. And then digitally, it’s good.

(02:26):

It’s exciting. It’s just different.

Rick (02:28):

Well, let me ask you this. We both come from similar backgrounds. I went to University of Florida, was in broadcast journalism. And if I harken back to some of my earlier career days working for the Orlando Magic, used to type up game notes in a system that the NBA had and you got your game notes ready for the next day. But my point here is writing is such an integral part. I see more and more about AI, artificial intelligence kicking out stories based on information going in. How crucial is it to be a good writer these days?

Mike (02:58):

I think it’s critical. And we always warn our editors, and there’s so much a warning, but it’s an admonition or a suggestion that your stories just cannot sound like in- flight reading. And in fact, guess what? There’s no more in- flight reading. That’s a term that probably doesn’t make sense to people anymore. But I’ve said in the trades, if you read one of our stories or you tell me that your grandmother really enjoyed reading one of the stories in our magazine, I’m thinking we surely didn’t do our job because it’s not simplistic. It’s not consumer-esque. And there’s a lot of not just good writers, but good industry content that has to be presented in those stories. And that’s definitely what we strive for here.

Rick (03:38):

All right, let’s switch things up a little bit here. We’re going to throw you some rapid fire, some hot pan questions. All right. What comes to mind when I say what is Mike Gutti’s favorite baked good? Or maybe you have a memory of something growing up that you’re like, “Boy, that was the best ever.”

Mike (03:52):

My mom’s passed away, so she can’t hear me, but not maybe the best baker in the world, but believe me, great at everything else. So I’d say my favorite baked good is a fresh croissant and it doesn’t sound very Hamburg Iowa-esque and it’s not, but there’s just nothing better. Or if you’re going on the savory side, a ham and cheese croissant or something like that is just you just break away from your diet every once in a while and enjoy something like that for a late morning breakfast and a cup of coffee. It’s nothing better as far as I’m concerned.

Rick (04:22):

Well, in France, they have what the croquettes and the right? Ham and cheese or the straight cheese kind of sandwiches and they’re outstanding. So you talk about your mom and maybe you’ve got some memories of baked goods. I remember my mom would make these things. She called them Hello Dollies, but they’re like magic cookie bars using a graham cracker crust, putting in chocolate and butterscotch chips and pecans and coconut and eagle brand milk. And I’m telling you what, it was unbelievable. Those things, man, my brother and I would go through them. But all right, most memorable, since we talk sports a lot, most memorable sporting event or sporting experience. And I tell you what, you’ve seen it all in Kansas City from Chief’s football to Royals winning a World Series. What sticks out in your mind or even going back to Iowa Days or Mizzou?

Mike (05:06):

Without a doubt, I think it’s the Masters. I’ve thought about it, and this is the week that we’re talking, this is Master’s Week, and I’ve been three times and I would drop everything to go again. And Becky, my wife, who’s not a golfer or even interested in golf and gives you the no way sign when people start talking about golf has been a couple times and she would drop everything to go down to the Masters just for the experience. And there’s just nothing like it. We walked up 18 with Arnold Palmer on his last masters. And that’s just a slice of it. Just being there every day, all day, there’s nothing like it. But I would also say that World Series games with the Royals were awfully fantastic too. I mean, just to win a World Series game and be in that stadium is an amazing event, unequal.

(05:54):

And I’ve never been to a Super Bowl, so I can’t count that.

Rick (05:57):

Hey, just so you know, Cindy and I are available to go to the Masters anytime. I’ve been on the lottery list for six years. I get shut out every time. I’ve tried every which way, but no luck. But hey, when you talk about baked goods, there’s baked goods at the masters, right? Those pimento cheese sandwiches and egg salad for a couple bucks. It’s pretty unique, that setup.

Mike (06:14):

And moon pies.

Rick (06:15):

Oh, I didn’t know that. Okay.

Mike (06:17):

Yeah. And for a while, I think they might call them marshmallow pies now, but nothing’s branded at the masters. There’s not a single branded product. Potato chips are called potato chips. They’re Lay’s potato chips, I’m sure, not in a lays dealing. And so you have to private label them for the masters. But up until recently, moonpies were so iconic that they let them call them moon pies. And last year, we went last year and they ran out. And I was just with the Chattanooga baking folks this week, as were you at the ABA, and we were talking about that. And he goes, “It wasn’t because we didn’t send them a lot. It’s just that they’re so popular.”

Rick (06:53):

All right. What flavor moonpie is your favorite?

Mike (06:56):

Well, I just like the standard chocolate. But hey, you know what? They talk about doing all kinds of things with them and moonpies are the best. Maybe there’s nothing healthy about them, but they’re saying they’re all natural, which they are, but they do last a long time. Hopefully my friends will listen to this, but moonpies last a long time.

Rick (07:12):

They’re outstanding. I love the banana ones. I don’t know if you ever had a banana one.

Mike (07:15):

Oh yeah.

Rick (07:16):

That’s my favorite. All right. Last one of these hot pan questions. First job in high school or maybe the most memorable one that you had that maybe it taught you a lesson or two.

Mike (07:25):

Yeah. Well, I was lucky. I grew up in a farming community and all my buddies and brothers and everybody were headed out to work on the farms being a town kid with three brothers or four of us. And all three of my brothers were going the same day, one year apart, which is a unique situation. So we were very popular with the farmers. So I guess that could probably be my first job, but I got to be assistant manager of the Hamburg Pool. And my boss was my football coach and it was just hilarious and fun. Then I also worked at Vogel Popcorn for a couple summers, and that was my first experience and exposure to the food industry. But it’s a Conagra company now. But Vogel Popcorn’s from Hamburg, Iowa, the popcorn capital of the world.

Rick (08:02):

We are talking with the pride of Hamburg, Iowa, and affectionately known as almost the mayor of Kansas City, Mike Gutti from Sawsan Publishing. So Mike, hey, tip of the cap to you, buddy. If you know Mike, it’s quite an honor and something that I know he really had some heartfelt feelings about named recently to the American Society of Baking’s Hall of Fame, big induction back in the first part of March. So Mike, I mean, it was a whirlwind, right? How special was it? And you’re not a guy that’s out there grabbing for headlines, but how special was it to have your family and be a part of this elite group, the Hall of Fame?

Mike (08:37):

I was humbled and honored, and there’s no other way to describe it. It was amazing to see all the outpouring of support from all my friends and industry colleagues. I honestly was looking for a little more roasting. They had some dinners and that was all fun, but everyone was nice. And some say too nice. There’s probably a lot more fun to be had, but people were just really great about it. And it continues too. I mean, some of my friends were discussing that I may need ego detox after that week. Yeah, there’s something about that too, but it is. I’m starting to settle in a little bit and I’m really proud, like I said, proud of everything. And good and well that it has so much to do with the forum that I’ve been allowed to have here at Sauslin Publishing and all of the things that we are allowed to do and all the things that I can accomplish for the industry through the pages and through the content in our magazine.

(09:27):

So it was really an honor.

Rick (09:28):

We joke about you being the mayor of Kansas City. I don’t even know who the mayor is of Kansas City. Do you

Mike (09:33):

Know? Winton Lucas. He’s quite a character and

Rick (09:36):

Quite a story. Yeah. I mean, does he know you’re gunning for his

Mike (09:38):

Job or- Well,

Rick (09:38):

You know what?

Mike (09:39):

I can text him. I can text him and

Rick (09:41):

He’ll

Mike (09:41):

Respond. He’s that kind of guy. He’s really good.

Rick (09:44):

What kind of phone numbers you got in that iPhone there, Mike? But no, why do you think people affectionately call you that? Why do you think that you’ve got a popular figurehead kind of aura within the baking industry?

Mike (09:56):

I think part of it too is that when you come visit us, we kind of hang around the office area here and the office is two miles from my house. The restaurants that are three blocks away from here are the restaurants that I frequent. The people that still live here are my friends or friends from my kids’ school. I’m looking out my window right now at Visitation Church, which was where my kids went to grade school and visitation school. So everything’s right here. And we walk in someplace, people tend to know me and you’re thinking, “Do you know everybody in Kansas City?” And it’s really more like I know everybody in about a nine block radius, which is my life here. So there is a little bit of that, but hey, it’s longevity. If you hang around long enough, people start to recognize you. And honestly, I love putting people together in our industry, suppliers with customers, employers, looking for employees, et cetera.

(10:45):

And people never forget that. I can’t tell you how many people came up to me at the ASB and said things like, “I’ll never forget the way you introduced me to people when I first came into the industry.”

Rick (10:55):

There’s a popular quote, right? I mean, people don’t always remember maybe what you’ve done, but how you made them feel. I think you’re a good reminder of that. And I’m going to bring somebody else from Kansas City and we’ll see if there’s a linkage here. Jason Sudeikis, right, popular actor and comedian portrays Ted Lasso. I mean, is there a little bit of Ted Lasso in Mike Gutti, kind of a fun spirit, is kind and gentle a person you could actually be?

Mike (11:20):

Funny you should say that because what I think is the similarity. I watched it last night. Jason Sudeikis was on there and he had all of his supporting cast and he would just say something and then just really walk away because he didn’t really have anything to add necessarily, didn’t have a ton of expertise in what he’s talking about, but just sort of sets other people up to look good or to have impact and then hopefully rally the troops around it. So that’s funny you should say that because I was just thinking of that this morning.

Rick (11:49):

And there’s a lot of good lessons. Is there one that really sticks out from the Hamburg Pool or maybe the popcorn business or first start of your career where you really got heavy into publishing?

Mike (11:58):

Well, we do joke a lot about this and I’ve been known to say you can fake caring, but you can’t fake showing up. And I learned that from Bill Clinton’s private pastor. And there are a lot of fun stories. And that hour and a half I spent with him drinking scotch in Jackson Hole during a BEMA meeting, not Bill Clinton, but with the pastor. I think he was-

Rick (12:20):

Either way, I’m sure it’s entertaining, right?

Mike (12:22):

Ex-pastor, yeah, ex- pastor at the time, but he taught us that lesson. And what it means is that attending and participating is everything. And by doing that, you’ll meet people and you’ll become ingrained in the industry if that’s your choice. There’s two ways to do it. I mean, you can just do your work and go home or to become ingrained in the industry and it makes it fun. And I think that’s an easy formula for success. And you know my crew here, they love that idea and they are practicing it every day. And I can’t tell you how many times people come to me and said, “Guess who I just met?” Or, “Guess what just happened to me because of somebody that I met years ago and they introduced me to somebody else.” So that’s my number one life lesson and I think that can’t be underemphasized.

Rick (13:06):

So you can fake caring, but you can’t fake showing up.

Mike (13:09):

Showing up.

Rick (13:10):

Well, it’s funny because I’m going to take it back to Ted Lasso just on the fly here because there’s a special episode in there and it hearkens back to a moment that happened with Alan Iverson in the Philadelphia 76ers.You remember that? He’s like, “Practice man, I’m talking about a game. We’re talking about practice.” And there was a Ted Lasso episode making a point. You got to show up. You got to be a part of the team. So hey, again, we’re listening to Mike Gutti here from Sauslin Publishing. If you’ve got to know for us or you want to send in an email to Mike, we can get that answered for you. The ovenlight@abaury.com is our email address again, the ovenlight@abaury.com. All right, let’s go back to some hot pan. These are kind of fun questions for you. So let’s talk about Missouri and even Kansas favorite barbecue joint.

Mike (13:53):

Well, my new favorite is Q39. There’s a whole lot of reasons for that. It’s a little bit fancier than the normal, not white tablecloth, but they do have waiters and they have cocktails and that kind of stuff and they do serve them to you. So that’s different. But they’ve really gotten out there and done a bunch of cool stuff. In fact, in April, they’re bringing back one of my favorites, Smoked Fried Chicken, and it’s going to just be on for a week and that’s way out of the norm. But Arthur Bryant’s is my classic. I got to go with that. And there’s a whole lot of reasons and I’ve been kind of following them since the early 80s.

Rick (14:24):

I will tell you, probably one of my favorites over on your side of Missouri is Joe’s, the one that’s in the gas station on the Kansas side of Kansas City, which is outstanding. Then I have one from my NASCAR days and I haven’t had it in years. I’m sure it’s still there. It’s called the Ridgewood. It was outside of Bristol, Tennessee. They would bring in these cold pork sandwiches into the racetrack. Sometimes if we got in early enough, we’d go there, but boy, it was outstanding. All right, let’s talk Columbia, Missouri, where you went to college. Shakespeare’s Pizza, which is a local favorite, or Booches Burgers. It’s a pool hall. You get these cool mid-size burgers, maybe a cold beer if you’re so into it. What do you like?

Mike (15:01):

From my perspective, the Booches is my happy place. And it’s literally number one in the world for me for being somewhere that I do love, but Booches is way ahead of the game.

Rick (15:11):

All right, let’s go back. Could be a first concert or maybe a favorite concert. I’m going to go

Mike (15:16):

With my first, and the concert was Aerosmith, and I’m going to say late ’70s, and they were barely … I mean, they’re just getting started, and it was in Omaha, Nebraska.

Rick (15:26):

Boston’s own Aerosmith in Omaha, huh?

Mike (15:28):

Yep. And we went to this concert with a friend of mine, and I’d never really been to a concert before. And don’t forget, I mean, there were 32 people in my graduating class, eight went to college and less than a thousand people from my hometowns. We went to this concert. We attended the concert. The band, I didn’t really know what Aerosmith was. They had a warmup band that was great and we was just rocking along and band was over. And I didn’t though, man, I didn’t recognize any of the songs. And that was over. And we left, started to leave and we’re walking out and we’re walking down the long hall. It was a big auditorium and got to the door and looked back and nobody was following us. We left or tried to leave after the warmup band thinking that we’d been to an Aerosmith concert.

(16:10):

Needless to say, I mean, this was before rock video and all that, but it was great. Turned out great and it was quite an experience.

Rick (16:17):

Two quick points. We just had Alan Hunter on a recent show from MTV. He was one of the first original five MTV VJs, so he could back you up on the timing of all that. The other is I saw Aerosmith during IBIE 2022. I had never seen him, didn’t fully appreciate him until I got to see him and hear Steven Tyler’s voice, Joe Perry on the guitar. Tell you what, it was outstanding. Boston’s own, Aerosmith. Boy, that’s a great memory. Allright, let’s talk about the workplace or things maybe outside of the workplace, just a tad. So I know you like to golf. What else is there to Mike Gutti, the man? We know you’re a family man. You’ve talked about Becky, you’ve talked about grandkids, all that. What are you doing to keep yourself engaged in everything?

Mike (16:56):

You’re right about me liking golf and Hope Spring’s eternal regarding my golf game. I’ve said this for many years. This is the year, but my life does revolve around my family and my grandkids who recently moved 1,240 steps away from me at my house. It’s made life very interesting and simple. And I’m also involved in a couple of charitable organizations, including one called Christmas in October. And I’ve been on that board for probably the last 10 years. And my friend Jim Lynch was on the board prior to me representing a group here or in the world called the Knights of Malta. And this group fixes up houses for disadvantaged folks. And this year we’re celebrating our 10,000th house that we’ve repaired.

Rick (17:39):

And this is a Kansas City owned or how widespread is this organization?

Mike (17:44):

It’s Kansas City.

Rick (17:45):

Wow.

Mike (17:46):

Started by two guys, John McNeill, the guy that runs the company that handles Dunesbury and cartoons and Kathy and that. United Press syndicate. And then another local lawyer here, a guy named Dick Miller, started it 40 years ago. So yeah, 10,000 homes repairing them for four and disadvantaged people.

Rick (18:04):

Well, well done, Mike. Thanks for that. That’s outstanding. All right, so let’s talk back to baking a little bit. What are you seeing? You’ve seen a lot in your multi-decade career. Are there some key trends going on that you’re looking at and you’re like, “Wow, that’s really interesting.” Or, “Boy, we’re in a really unique time. I haven’t seen this before.” Anything captivating?

Mike (18:21):

I thought about this a little bit. I mean, taste and quality is still foremost and people are looking for that healthy eating. So from the Grain Foods Foundation, we’ve got to continue to promote the fact that grain foods are healthy, clean label. People consider that. And during tough times, maybe not so much, but I still think people are cognizant of that. I’m watching the keto products coming on and good reason for that, and it’s low sugar. I mean, a lot of things that are on trend, it’s difficult for bread in that regard, but still it’s happening. And on the sweet good side, indulgence, which means that people are saying, “You know what? I’m not eating them all the time, but when I do, I want it to be, again, high quality and great taste.” And so that seems all very, very positive. You’re asking what’s captivating, especially after attending the ABA, I’m impressed with the way that the industry at least is beginning the fight or fighting hard to overcome workforce issues out there.

(19:17):

It’s everywhere using automation to overcome those. We’re nowhere near there yet. I see them working in tandem with the equipment people and the smart ingredient people like AB Maury and your crew are working all the time to make the products more consistent where it requires less input from humans and building a great product without being forced to worry about people not coming to work that day. So anyway.

Rick (19:42):

Well, here’s one. We talk about shifting marketplaces and all that too. We know for years people have shifted to these things that are always in our hands, the iPhone or the smartphone. How do you handle … You’re with a print publishing company, but obviously you’ve had to pivot a little bit, but at the same time, there’s something special about the baking industry. People still want to have that tangible magazine in their hands and not always look on their phones or on their tablets, right?

Mike (20:08):

You’ve hit the nail on the head when you’re talking about the baking industry and we’re constantly taking the pulse of our readers through studies and discussions. And as long as they tell us that print is still preferred at a certain level, then we’re going to continue to do that. And we think it’s relevant. We think the presentation is just so different. And you’re right, there is a preference. The number of the shift is happening without a doubt. People are using digital formats to get quick information and to listen and to listen to podcasts and all the things and watch video. But at the same time, at other times, they’re interested in the print magazine. And our goal is to be wherever people want us to be at whenever they want us to be there. So it’s our clear commitment to deliver content in all forms and when and where our readers want it.

(20:55):

So we’re monitoring it and you’re absolutely right in every comment that you make. And we’ll find out. We’ll see.

Rick (21:01):

What do you think part of it too? I mean, the baking industry is really unique. I came outside the industry. I didn’t grow up in it, but the point there is this is a very generation to generation industry, bakers beginning new bakers. Do you think that’s a reason why some of that is still there? And why is this industry so unique and so darn special that it keeps getting passed down generation to generation?

Mike (21:23):

I just think that it is unique and I’ve tried to explain it and people say, “Well, we’re from the dairy industry.” And there’s a little bit of that. And the big companies have come in and taken over all many, many industries. We’ve created consolidation at those levels. And the baking industry too. We’ve got a $5 billion company in Bimbo and you asked them what percentage of the worldwide bakery consumption they have. I mean, if you had to guess. I

Rick (21:48):

Don’t know, you’re going to tell me it’s slower than I think it is.

Mike (21:51):

Yeah, I’m going to say 5%. And-

Rick (21:54):

So what does that tell you, Mike?

Mike (21:56):

It tells you that a lot of young people or I mean a lot of young people, a lot of families that are out there baking products. And I think what part of it is, as you said, it goes from generation to generation because the guy that starts it, builds it from nothing, then the son that comes in, sees this is pretty cool, and then they take advantage of it and want to be in the industry too. But no, there’s something in the yeast or something or something in the water. It’s pretty special

Rick (22:21):

When it shows the importance of the local bakery, having that local bakery down the street or someone that you get to know and they’re putting out great product for you. Sorry, Mike.

Mike (22:30):

I was going to tell you that Lou Rotella’s wife was telling me the story of, because you’re asking about print, you’re asking about digital. We just did a big expose on Rotella’s and it’s something that I’ve wanted to do for 35 years and they told us no, no, hell no, for many years and finally decided this will be fun. And part of it was Lou being inducted into the Lou Jr. Being inducted to the Hall of Fame along with his father who’s passed away and thought, “What the heck? Let’s promote this business a little bit or explain to people what we are. ” Well, I talked to Lou Junior’s wife at the ASB and here we’ve had all these stories. We put them out on the web. We sent them out digitally and she told me that when they got the magazine, and of course they’d seen the stories many times, that she sat down and read out loud the entire story to Lou Jr., The entire story of Rotella’s.

(23:23):

And you can imagine what his reaction was as she was reading it. He’s a very sensitive guy and he might’ve shed a tear or two. And I just thought, now that is a great testimonial to magazines and to print and to our industry, just how important all of that. And we’re so lucky that we get to do that. I’m going to be doing a story here in just a few weeks, in fact, where I’m heading out to what’s a pretty special baking company and doing the same kind of thing. So looking forward to that.

Rick (23:50):

Well, I tell you what, our good friend, Mike Gutti from Sawsan Publishing, always informative, always has inspiring things to say, and we appreciate you joining The Ovenlight. So for now, our listeners out there, the switch is off, the oven light is off, and we’ll see you next time. So long, everybody. We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Oven Light. Until next time when we discuss more about the wonderful world of baking technology, trends, and more, the switch is officially off. Goodbye for now. See you next time.