Live From Chicago, It’s ASB

Rick (00:04):

It takes a bit of a blend of art and science to get baking just right, and having extra eyes, ears, and hands can make a big difference along the way. That’s where A. B. Maury North America comes into play. We are the team behind industrial and artists and bakers that help optimize success. We’ll discuss more on this episode of The Oven Light. So let’s get going. Flip the switch. Welcome everybody to the Oven Light. I’m your host, Rick Ulshak. Today we’ve got a tria of guests for you. We’ve got a couple from A. B. Maury, North America. We’ve got Dana Dewey. We’ll tell you more about her. We also have Nicole Reese, our first three-time guest on The Oven Light. And then we have a newcomer, Theresa Watkinson. You may know her from Aladdin Bakeries up in Brooklyn, New York. So for now, the switch is on.

(00:55):

Welcome to The Oven Light. All right, let’s go, folks. How are we doing today?

Nicole (00:58):

Great.

Rick (00:59):

All right. This is exciting. We’re at ASB. We get to be the guinea pigs, right? We’ve been doing a podcast for A. B. Maury for over a year now, and we talk a lot about the baking industry. We’ve had Duff Goldman, if you know him from the Food Network has been on. We’ve had Father Dom from PBS. He’s known as the Breadmonk. We’ve also had Stephanie Pollock, who is a big influencer, right? That’s a big term today, social influencer. She’s got about a million followers and has a group called BakeFest. But in future episodes, we’re going to be talking about beer. Raise your hand in the room if you’d like beer. Yeast does some pretty remarkable things. So we’ve got the keyboard player from the rock band foreigner, a guy named Michael Bluestein that loves beer and we’ll have him on a show. Anybody from the MTV set maybe growing up in that era, Sirius XM, a guy named Alan Hunter, one of the first MTV VJs.

(01:44):

We’ll be on talking about gluten-free baking. His family follows a gluten-free lifestyle. But for now, let’s talk about ASB. We’re excited that we’re here in Chicago. Again, our guests are Theresa Watkinson, COO, Chief Operating Officer for Atlanta Bakers in Brooklyn. Nicole Reese, product director for AB Maury North America, and also Dana Dewey, who is our lab supervisor for sweet goods at A. B. Murray. All right, Theresa, welcome to the show.

Theresa (02:09):

Thanks for having me.

Rick (02:10):

I’m excited that you’re here. You’re from Long Island, I’m guessing,

Theresa (02:13):

Right? Yes.

Rick (02:14):

And you went to NYU, you got a law degree at Hofstra and you’re baking. How did that whole journey happen?

Theresa (02:20):

So I was an attorney for quite some time. I represented the owner of Aladdin Bakers in a personal matter. And then I represented the bakery in some complex commercial litigation. We were successful and he was like, “Come on board.” And my partner at the time wanted to retire. Why not? I would never have this opportunity again, so I decided to do it. I could always be a lawyer. I’m still a lawyer. I keep up my CLEs, but I just jumped. Awesome. And that’s where I am. Awesome.

Rick (02:50):

Love that. I mean, it’s a great story. You were also, if I recall, the 2020 Baking and Snack Operations Executive of the Year. How was that award?

Theresa (02:58):

Surprising. It was really interesting. I think a lot of it had to do with Brooklyn being the epicenter really, or New York City being the epicenter of the COVID pandemic. So how we dealt with it, it was a challenging time for everyone, especially I think our area, but it was a great honor.

Rick (03:16):

Absolutely. Well done. Okay. So we have some questions. We kind of do some rapid fire. We’ll call them the hot pan today, right? How about that? Favorite baked good, Theresa. What is your favorite baked good of anything when you see it? You got to have it.

Theresa (03:26):

We don’t make it at Aladdin, but pinnoli.

Rick (03:29):

Raise your hand in the studio audience. This is a studio audience. We never had this many people in a conference room. So who knows what a pinole is?

Theresa (03:36):

It’s like a little almond cookie with pinole. Pine nuts. Okay.

Rick (03:42):

I

Theresa (03:42):

Gotcha.

Rick (03:43):

They’re

Theresa (03:43):

Amazing.

Rick (03:43):

ASB is a technical conference. We’re trying to educate and you just educated us.

Theresa (03:46):

And I think they’re gluten free.

Rick (03:48):

Ah, there we go. Okay. Well, thank you for that. All right. A couple that are outside of bakery. First job and first car. You weren’t expecting these.

Theresa (03:59):

Well, first real job?

Rick (04:02):

No,

Theresa (04:02):

It can’t be

Rick (04:02):

Your first summer job.

Theresa (04:03):

Well, when I was a kid, I used to go around my neighborhood and rake leaves, shovel driveways and plant flowers and mow lawns. When I was 10, I saved up enough money for a real lawnmower that wasn’t a push mower. A lot of people are too young to know what that is. But yeah, I made a lot of money when I was a kid. At age 10? Yeah.

Rick (04:22):

This says a lot about Teresa.

Theresa (04:24):

I was a hard worker, one of seven.

Rick (04:26):

Yeah, you’re fighting at the dinner table just for stay fed. Awesome. Awesome. All right. Tell us a little bit more about Aladdin. I was looking up the business a little bit more. You’ve got a baked in Brooklyn kind of snack line with crisps and little breadsticks. And so you’ve got the bakery, fresh bakery side, but then you also have more of the retail side.

Theresa (04:44):

So we have three divisions. We have an artisan bakery, and that is bread that is … Every piece is touched by a person, hand formed in some way. We have our … So that’s daybread. That’s for hotels, restaurants, schools, prisons. Then we have our longer shelf life breads, which are our wraps, tortillas, panini, bagels, pita. And then we have our snack division. Like you said, flatbread crisps, breadsticks, and pita chips. You got some pita chips in your little bags from us.

Rick (05:18):

Show of hands if you’ve already eaten them and you like them. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. Awesome. Awesome. All right. So out of your portfolio of products, we already talked about your favorite baked good, but within your lineup, what do you like? Or what’s the one you’re just like, wow, this is really cool how we make this?

Theresa (05:33):

Pita chips for sure. That’s one thing that I eat pretty regularly. The sea salt, hands down, I think our favorite product.

Rick (05:41):

Love that. That’s awesome. How about, a lot of things probably keep you up at night. You’re an ops person. Certainly you’re lawyers, so you have a different lens, the way you kind of see things. We’ll move on from COVID, but are there things that are out there that kind of keep you up at night or keep you energized like, “Wow, I can’t wait for tomorrow because I get to do this. ” What is that?

Theresa (05:59):

Things that keep me up at night, the price of flour.

Rick (06:03):

A collective sigh of the room. Thank you.

Theresa (06:04):

Things that really interest me are this idea of keto and where that could take us. A lot of bakers are probably scared of it, but we’re moving towards embracing that whole market, low carb, keto kind of niche.

Rick (06:21):

I want to follow up on that because somebody in the studio audience, we don’t get names, so I don’t know who did it, but somebody asked about the future of the keto trend. Do you want to answer? I was going to ask Nicole, but Theresa, you’re here. How

Theresa (06:30):

Do you think? I am least able to answer that question out of these members. I think if you

Rick (06:36):

Turn to

Theresa (06:36):

Your right-

Rick (06:37):

We’re going to go to door number two. Nicole Reese, we’re going to jump in. What do you think about this trend?

Nicole (06:41):

Well, I think that it’s here long term. And I’m going to back up a minute. And before we had keto, I think we have a bias towards wheat as what we know to work with when we’re making baked goods. But the truth is that not everyone can eat wheat. And so first we talked about gluten-free and how that was it. Is that just a fad? Are people eating gluten-free because they really are celiac or is it just because they’re on a special diet? And then it was ancient grains came in. Why? Because we needed them because if we weren’t using wheat, we needed something else. And now we’ve kind of transferred over here into keto and we’re talking about making baked goods without grains sometimes, right? So to me, it’s long-term, it’s possible to do. Honestly, any type of dietary requirement, any special plan, if you do it well, if you can make a good cookie bread pizza, then it’s going to stay.

(07:38):

A trend’s only going to die if it’s awful. So if we’re going to make bad keto bread, then keto bread’s going to go away. If we make good keto bread, then people enjoy it, then it’s great because now we have diversity from all the baked goods that we get to choose from. That’s my theory.

Rick (07:53):

So Nicole, now that we’ve got you warmed up here, you’re the first three time guest on the oven light out of about 16 or 17 shows. How does that feel? I mean, this is like Saturday Night Live and you’re Steve Martin, you have five in.

Nicole (08:03):

It feels like you know when I come to the office. It’s teasing you. That just

Rick (08:09):

Got

Nicole (08:09):

Awkward. I actually like the attention. It makes me feel special. Well,

Rick (08:13):

You are special and you’ve got great knowledge and we want people to know about it. All right. Let’s talk about some of the ingredient things that you’ve discussed with us in the past. We’ve talked softeners, we’ve talked emulsifiers, we’ve talked sugar reduction, clean label. What are some things that maybe you’re kind of working on right now that are heavy on the heart?

Nicole (08:30):

Oh gosh. Well, we continue to build a portfolio as far as being able to lower sugar and make products that are still pretty amazing. I can’t say I worked on it. I was just over trying to concentrate on bread and create ingredients that would help on that side. But then of course Dana out there just had to show everyone up and make a donut that was 50% less sugar that tasted like an actual honest to God real donut and that blew everyone’s mind. Dana has a lot of fans at work. And what else are we working on? Texture. I mean, I think we go into baking because, well, I went into it because I like to eat baked goods and that’s either about the flavor or the texture. And so I think what’s really exciting is talking about how we can actually help create just the right texture.

(09:14):

If we’re going to take sugar out, if we’re going to take fat out, if we’re going to adjust everything, if we’re going to make it a high fat, high protein, low carb, how do we keep the right texture? And so I think a lot of the new products that we’ve created that can address that are important to me because that’s how we keep our fan base for baked goods. I don’t know. I feel like sometimes we lose out to other products and people start turning away from baked goods. I don’t want to see that happen. So it’s up to us to keep them interested and it’s up to the innovation teams to help make sure we can do that.

Rick (09:46):

Excellent. Somebody had also written in a question asking about what are the ingredient gaps out there. So maybe texture is one of those where ingredients can help give you a different eating experience. So are there some other ones that maybe that companies can work on to make a better experience for the consumer?

Nicole (10:02):

First, you said that question about an ingredient gap. The first thing I thought of, and maybe I’m kind of jumping into Dana’s territory is, yes, there’s a gap because sometimes we just can’t get that ingredient. So I would say for anybody who’s been working at all in the past year in bakery, it’s been a challenge to even get in the ingredients that you need. But as far as ingredients for innovators to work with, and Dana, you should answer this. I mean, I think we’re looking for more tools and we’re looking for more tools that meet whatever the requirement is of the today’s consumer. So if it’s clean label, well, I mean, do we have everything we need in that area? I feel like there’s lots of going on the plant protein side. A lot of it’s about nutritional protein fortification. But what about functional? Do we have everything we need on functional proteins?

(10:46):

Do we have everything we need on functional fats? I think there’s a lot more area to grow on. So no, I think there’s a lot of innovation that needs to be done, but I think it’s happening slowly.

Rick (10:55):

Awesome. Thank you, Nicole. A couple points of interest since we are at AASB, the American Society of Baking, this is a big week for us. This is the 99th, if I believe I’ve got the right number, ASB conference here in Chicago. Next year is already scheduled February 27th, 29th of 2024, and that’s the hundredth anniversary. That’s pretty exciting. So excited that we’ve got a great audience. It’s amazing. If I tried to count by individual person here, I’d need everybody’s fingers and toes here on the panel and we’re not going to do that. That would be weird. All right. So hi, Dana.

Dana (11:26):

Hello.

Rick (11:26):

Dana recently got a great promotion. She heads up our sweet good side for our innovation team and our R&D team. So, but I’m not going to talk about donuts. We’re going to come back to that. You’ve got more of a food science background, including five years in the wine business. Yep. Great things the east helps make. Tell us about it.

Dana (11:44):

So I went to school at the University of Missouri and I got my degree in food science and they were also starting a new anology and viticulture program there. And I was like, “Well, that seems interesting. I want to know more about that. ” And I hadn’t found fully the bakery side of it yet. And so I was still kind of figuring out what I wanted to do. So got an internship and making wine and I just stuck around for quite a while and worked in the winery and then worked in the vineyard and learned

Rick (12:08):

It all. It’s funny, we never get samples of wine in the office. What’s that all about?

Dana (12:11):

I know. It’s a shame.

Rick (12:14):

Well, your nickname is Dana Donut. At least I’m terming it here for the rest of the audience to know from here on out. So tell us about this special donut that you created using less sugar and it gives you the great bite, gives you the great taste and the flavor that Nicole was talking about. Yeah,

Dana (12:26):

There’s so many new technologies out there now that I feel like Nicole said, a lot of people shied away from eating some of these trends or the trends went away because we didn’t have the right technology, but there’s so many things that are just getting better. So replacing sugar, we have the right bulking agents, replace the sugar. And then we also have new sweeteners that it’s not usually just one that you can do to replace kind of that good sweet taste of sugar, but it’s using multiple of them. So combining both of that together. So really being able to replace both parts of it in a donut is able to

Rick (12:57):

Done.

Dana (12:58):

Awesome.

Rick (12:58):

All right. Let’s take the pressure off the panel real quick. We’re going to go across the board since we’re talking donuts. Dana, favorite donut, yeast, cake, and a specific style.

Dana (13:08):

Apple fritters for sure.

Rick (13:09):

Ooh, that’s heavy. That’s kind of high end. Yeah. Okay. Breaking out the wallet on that one. What do you got, Nicole?

Nicole (13:16):

Well, I used to like all the fancy donuts, but now that I work with Dana, what I want is just one of those old fashioned or cake donuts right off the fryer. Unglazed, unfrosted. No,

Rick (13:27):

You got to glaze that thing, don’t you?

Nicole (13:29):

No, but

Rick (13:29):

Lather it on.

Nicole (13:30):

When it’s fresh like that, if you just have a cup of coffee and you go in and she gives you one of those donuts. It’s amazing. It’s amazing.

Rick (13:37):

Well, great to disagree, but the donut base is great. I love that, Nicole. What do you got, Theresa?

Theresa (13:43):

So I gave up donuts a long time ago. Oh. Yeah, sorry.

Rick (13:48):

Wow. And sorry, the oven light is

Theresa (13:50):

Now off. But my all time favorite growing up was that Entyman’s like the one that had the crumbs on top.

Rick (13:59):

Chocolate or the

Theresa (14:00):

Regular? Chocolate. Hands down. Yeah.

Rick (14:02):

That’s the devil’s food crumb if I know. Anybody in the audience confirm that? Okay. They are good. I grew up on them.

Theresa (14:08):

Amazing. I don’t know that they sell them anymore. I think they’re gone.

Rick (14:11):

No, no, no, no, no. They’re still out there.

Theresa (14:13):

Oh.

Rick (14:13):

Entimates? Yeah, they’re out there.

Theresa (14:15):

Okay.

Rick (14:16):

I’m going to find some.

Theresa (14:17):

I might not eat it though.

Rick (14:19):

I’m going to work on that, Theresa. We’re going to work on that. My favorite, if anybody cares, I don’t know, is Boston Cream. I think Boston Cream is good. I didn’t want to say that with a New Yorker on the panel. I thought I would get some bad stares, but here we are. So Dana, back to you on the sweet good side. What are the things you’re working on? This was not a huge part of the portfolio for our company several years ago, but all of a sudden it’s right there, right? The industrial sweet goods market.

Dana (14:43):

Yeah. So we’re doing a lot of the cake and donut mixes and bases and concentrates, but now we’re trying to also incorporate some of that new technology into it. So really focusing on how can we make it different for these customers, but also utilizing, like Nicole was saying, there’s so many shortages out there. So our starch shortages, how can we create something when that’s an issue? So trying to create something that’s not going to need starch in it. So a cream cake without starch is kind of a focus that we’re lurking into and utilizing those new technologies to … When you take out one ingredient, you can’t just always replace it with another one. Egg reduction’s the same. Taking out an egg so simple that you need usually like 10 different ingredients to replace it, but it’s working on those kind of things because we really want to make it still indulgent and really exciting for people to eat and not that healthy, boring, sweet, good item.

Rick (15:34):

Is that exciting as a food scientist where you’ve got this opportunity to kind of work on these things, right? Eggs continue to be in the news. Sometimes it’s bird flu, sometimes it’s just the cost of the eggs and other issues, supply. Does that kind of keep you going?

Dana (15:47):

Yeah, and it’s also daunting. Yeah. But it’s been a lot of fun to work in and kind of expand into different areas and see where the challenges are. And is it easy in this field? Yeah, sure, maybe. But you get into this kind of category and all of a sudden it’s a whole new playing field.

Rick (16:03):

Oh, I appreciate that. Okay. Quick little sidebar. We do have an email address called theovenlight@abmawory.com. We encourage mail. Yes, please send us a note. And if you do, we’ll send you a swag item. I’m not going to tell you what it is because I don’t know what it is. We’ve got a whole laundry list of things. It could be cool. It could be a total bummer, but you’ll get something. So send me an email, the ovenlight@abauri.com. I’m the guy who checks it, right? I mean, and Tricia McNamara helps us a little bit too. So Theresa, back to you. So you’re a consumer facing company, you got a lot going on, a lot of areas. What are some consumer trends that you guys maybe have your eye on from a product category or application standpoint?

Theresa (16:40):

So right now, I think that a lot of consumers are more concerned about how much they’re paying for everything they put on their plate. So we’re really concerned with quality. If we can give a quality product, consumers are willing to pay a little bit more for a lot more quality. I see that there tends to be a race to the bottom and we’re trying to maintain our quality without hurting our consumer.

Rick (17:06):

Is there anything else, Nicole, on your side that from a trend standpoint, you’re like, I mean, you’re a mom, right? And you’re a consumer as well. You’re not just this really incredible writer and product developer, but you are. You’re kind of multitasking. So what’s out there that you keep your eye on?

Nicole (17:23):

I really do love the idea that we have so many tools that we can make a lot of foods nutritious for kids. So I love the fact that I can buy bars or buy bakery goods for my daughter and like the tortilla she eats. She has no idea that they’re high fiber. And so I love that that’s possible. And I mean, quite honestly, a lot of what we learn in baking, just the tools that we have to have like, okay, prices of eggs are going up, how do we use less egg? And then going back to Dana, she also created the first vegan cake that I can say really honestly is a good cake, like a cake that I would pick up and have with coffee in the morning. I love that in the future we’re going to have a lot more of that. My daughter’s going to see foods that I never would have dreamed of where we’re going to be able to tailor make everything so that you still get the great texture, but it may not have as much sugar.

(18:13):

It may not have as much fats that are unhealthy for you. It may be higher in protein. There’s going to be all these benefits. So I think that that’s really exciting.

Rick (18:19):

Dana, how about you? You’re a newer mom as well. You’ve got a growing family. How about you? You’ve got a different angle on things too.

Dana (18:26):

Yeah. I like going to the grocery store and just seeing always new items. And I’m like, who makes this and where’s it from? And I think that there’s so many chances out there for people to kind of come into the industry and still survive and make great new products. And you’re not just your standard products. There’s going to be something unique about it. And like to Nicole’s point that they’re packed with maybe fiber or something and you don’t even know it and the kids don’t care about it because they’re looking at something else that’s maybe on the label or visually it’s appealing to them. So there’s so many just fun things out there now that it’s making waves.

Rick (19:00):

I do enjoy that. And I think we’re going to go across the panel here talking about like new products when you’re walking through the grocery store and you get exposed to one. And I found one a couple years ago during the pandemic at an Ace Hardware in Florida and now you see them everywhere. Dots, pretzels, anybody out there passionate for these things. Now they have a cinnamon one that’s like a dessert pretzel. They’re outstanding, but whatever the seasoning is, it’s crack-like. Theresa, do you have anything that you’ve liked in the last six months you’re like, “I got to have it. It’s now part of my food set. It’s my shopping list every time.”

Theresa (19:29):

There are these pretzel flats that just do it for me. They’re like smooshed pretzels like crisps, pretzel crisps, they might be called. I don’t even know the maze.You don’t

Rick (19:38):

Know the maker?

Theresa (19:38):

My husband does the shopping.

Rick (19:42):

Is it the white and blue bag and they have different colors like white and green, white and red, different flavors? No. All right. We got to research this. All right. Who wants to go to the grocery store here in Chicago? We all go in as a group? I mean, that’s like serious dollars. Nicole, how about you? Well,

Nicole (19:55):

I was thinking, remember we had that road trip recently together.

Rick (19:58):

It was a full team. It just wasn’t the two of us.

Nicole (20:01):

We

Rick (20:01):

Don’t just gallivant and do our oven light on the road.

Nicole (20:04):

Well, I like to think that it was the fun car, except there was all that 80s music trivia. And actually I earned my place in the backseat, so I’m proud that was good. But you let us stop at any convenience smart that I wanted to stop in because I like to see what’s for sale. I like the Keandy aisle, I like to junk aisle, I like to see everything that’s in … I like road food. And remember that little-

Rick (20:24):

Not rogue kill. Just want to make sure road food, right?

Nicole (20:27):

Okay. It depends how hungry I am. That little package, it was cornflakes and it was like a peanut butter, butterscotch kind of … I’ve never seen that company before. It

Rick (20:36):

Was darn good, wasn’t it?

Nicole (20:37):

It was really amazing. We tried a whole bunch of things and I have to say that my picks were a little bit better than yours for that trip, that direction. But it inspired me so much that I had to go back home and create a whole new cereal bar thing for my daughter based on what we found in the Convenience Mart that was exciting.

Rick (20:53):

It remind me at Christmastime, anybody ever heard of those things called green leaves, right? You make cornflakes, you dye them green and red and almost looks like Holly leaves. It was like that, but it was peanut butter flavored and it was outstanding.

Nicole (21:05):

It was really good.

Rick (21:06):

Yeah, it was really good. All right. How about you, Dana?

Dana (21:07):

So changing out of baking, but into the alcohol aisle, there’s so many … Sorry.

Rick (21:12):

I

Dana (21:13):

Like

Rick (21:13):

This gal.

Dana (21:15):

But there’s so many, not only the canned cocktails, but already prepared cocktails that make it so easy that if you want to make a fun cocktail at home, I have all these cocktail books, but I can’t make anything because I don’t have all the ingredients. So I can just buy them conveniently in the store now and it makes it easy for at night to-

Rick (21:31):

And nobody knows the difference, right? You could use as a base for another drink too. For sure.

Dana (21:35):

Yeah.

Rick (21:35):

Absolutely. Okay. So which one do you like?

Dana (21:37):

So they have some really good old fashioned mixes that tend towards that. Yeah.

Rick (21:42):

All right. Quick show of hands. I know this is a baking program, but we do make yeast and other things. Show of hands. Who’s ever bought one of those canned cocktails at a bar or at a grocery store or anything like that? All right, that’s at least 50%. That’s pretty good. Okay.

Dana (21:53):

The others are just hiding. They have as well.

Rick (21:55):

I know. They’re embarrassed, but that’s okay. There’s no embarrassment in there. All right, we’re going to get ready to wrap up here, but a couple little housekeeping items for those. Again, this is the first time we’ve done this. We’re the Guinea pigs for the American Society Baking podcast. So we thank you for the studio audience here. It’s the biggest audience I think we’ll ever have unless we move to Bush Stadium in St. Louis, but gives us something to reach for. If you want to know about ASB in the future, you can just hop on their website. It’s asbe.org. I already talked about next year’s show, be February 27th to the 29th, 2024. Theresa, anything, final parting shots you want to get out. This is your one chance to get in front of this audience that is here live and as well as the audience will be listening in their cars or in their office here in a couple of weeks.

Theresa (22:39):

I would say if you guys are the bosses here, you should promote your employees to come. It’s a huge opportunity to mentor or be mentored. And if you don’t see that value yet, you will by the end of this and you should promote more bakers and allies to come.

Rick (22:55):

Well, you can’t get a better service announcement for that, right? Thank you, Theresa. How about you, Nicole? Any parting shots like what you want to get out of the next few days? Anything on the days ahead for you? Well,

Nicole (23:05):

I was just going to go back to what Teresa says. Wasn’t last year your first …

Theresa (23:08):

It was.

Nicole (23:09):

Yeah. So considering last year was your first time here, that’s pretty high price. That’s really amazing. So what do I think for the next few days? I love to see familiar faces. I love to meet new faces. I love that every year this group changes just a little bit, and I think we’re more diverse than we ever have been. I think we represent different parts of the baking industry better. And I don’t know, it’s been fun meeting new people. I’d love it.

Theresa (23:33):

By the way, I consider her one of my mentors, so thank you.

Rick (23:38):

All right, this is good stuff. We got relationships being built as we speak. Dana, how about you?

Dana (23:43):

This is actually my first time here. So it’s been a great experience so far, and I’ve been doing several of the Society of- Bakery women. Bakery women. Thank you. I’ve gone to a couple of those events now, and it’s just amazing to see the diversity and all of that and how many women there are here. And it’s just been really welcoming and exciting to see kind of the energy that’s going on.

Rick (24:05):

I was speaking with Lori Gordon, who was longtimer with Sauce Publishing last night at the Bakery Women Event and she talked, I can’t remember how far back, but it was at least maybe 30, 40 years. And she said, “I remember going to an event and I was the only female.” There’s one other who was like a bakery plant manager and that’s it. There were two people. So to see that crowd last night and to see the professionalism, the skills and the expertise was really exciting.

Nicole (24:29):

So

Rick (24:29):

I’m glad you could join. So for now, Theresa, Nicole, Dana, thank you for joining us at ASB. Hope everybody has a great rest of their time. Keep listening. We’ll be talking more about beer, yeast, beer, wine, and spirits, and all that good stuff on the oven light. But for now, the switch is off. We’ll see you next time. We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of The Oven Light. Until next time when we discuss more about the wonderful world of baking technology, trends and more, the switch is officially off. Goodbye for now. See you next time.